gray-zone Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Intro Hi everyone, I just want to start off by saying this forum has been a great resource to me for quite a long time now, and I am happy to give back to this community by sharing my story. I hope you guys will find this review of The Face Dental and elaboration on the details of my concerns helpful to those who have similar conditions and facial features as me. Currently (11/11/2018), I am 13 weeks post-op and my condition is good. Even right out of surgery, Dr. Hong-sun Kim (Anesthesiologist) and Dr. Lee told me on separate occasions that my swelling was minimal compared to most patients. Now, I am back in the United States to pursue a graduate degree. I will try to continue to update and reply as best as I can, although please note that I will be extremely busy. Background I am a 23-year-old Asian male and have always been preoccupied about my side profile for as long as I can remember. Especially in high school, it was my biggest insecurity. I used to be called names such as horse face or monkey face by friends. Even my parents would comment about my face and say that it looks too small and weak. During my college years, the thought of cosmetic surgery occurred to me. I then later realized that I had a weak chin and protruded mouth while finding out about the plastic surgery industry in South Korea. I’ve never thought about surgery too seriously until after college when I had the opportunity to move to South Korea for work. It was my first time living in another country. I lived in South Korea for 2 years. Consultations I will begin by describing my experiences with consultations and explaining why I felt that Dr. Lee and TFD was the right choice for me. Banobagi My first experience with cosmetic surgery was back in January 2017. I had rhinoplasty at Banobagi and at the time Dr. Lee at Banobagi pointed out my protruded mouth and weak chin. He suggested I consult with Dr. Oh who was in charge of face contouring. After taking my X-rays, I was suggested an implant or genioplasty. Dr. Oh informed me that if I go with an implant, I would not be able to add vertical length but only horizontal forward projection. He also asked if I wanted to change my blunt chin to make it more pointed and sharper. If that was the case, then I would definitely need genioplasty with bone osteotomy. I did show a few pictures and noted that a pointy chin was not what I wanted. I decided to take time to think more about doing work on my chin and the options I had. At the time, I only planned on doing my nose. Side note: I used DocFinderKorea for Banobagi because it was during peak season (winter) and I felt that it would give me priority since I only had a week break to do rhinoplasty. However, I don’t think DocFinderKorea is necessary, especially if you are already living in Korea or very familiar with Korea. After more research and thought, I decided I will only look into oral maxillofacial surgeons at dental clinics instead of plastic surgery clinics. Since this is such a major surgery, I felt that it would be wiser to find a small and specialized clinic with qualified doctors in the dental field who only worked on facial bone and jaw procedures. At The Face Dental, the doctors are Dr. Joong-Kyou Lee (OMF Surgeon), Dr. Hoon Kim (Orthodontist), and Dr. Hong-sun Kim (Anesthesiologist). First Consultation at The Face Dental My initial consultation at The Face Dental with Dr. Joongkyou Lee was actually back in July 2017, a few months after my nose surgery. I made an appointment for the consultation through Facebook. There is a $20 consultation fee. I was led by the front desk staff to take photos of my face and then x-rays. Then, I met with the consultant to briefly explain my concerns. Her English is minimal, but she will try her best to communicate through Google Translate. Afterward, I met with Dr. Lee. He had a friendly demeanor and was comfortable to talk with. When you consult with Dr. Lee, you will not need to have a translator. His English is good enough to communicate with effectively. I expressed my concerns about my protruding mouth and small chin. Dr. Lee used a simulation program on my photo to show cephalography measurements and predict the result. He was able to manipulate different angles on my face and show me how I can be expected to look like after surgery. I believe it is based on cephalography measurements. I was very impressed! This gave me a good idea of what to expect. (The other clinics that I later consulted with did not show me a simulation to explain predicted results.) I was thinking about having ASO done because it seems to be a bit less invasive compared to double jaw surgery. However, when I brought that up to Dr. Lee, he pointed out that because I already have my upper left molar tooth missing from previous orthodontic treatment during high school, removing the premolars at the top and bottom would not be suitable for the function of the bite. In addition, I would need braces if I wanted to have ASO, but I do not need braces for double jaw surgery. I appreciated that Dr. Lee was not only concerned about the aesthetic outcome, but also the functional result of my bite. What good would an aesthetic jaw be if it couldn’t do its job? Therefore, he recommended double jaw surgery. I liked that he was able to show me a PowerPoint of before and after pictures from previous patients with my case as well! For my chin, Dr. Lee suggested that I add vertical length and forward projection which is what I wanted. I emphasized to Dr. Lee that I would not like a pointy chin because it is too feminine for Western standards. Dr. Lee understands the difference between ideal beauty standards of the Westerners and Asians. I grew up in America my whole life, so I find Western aesthetic attractive, and reiterated that I would like a stronger chin. In addition, he did make an important observation: my philtrum is too long. Instead of a 1:2 philtrum to chin ration, mine was more like 1:1. Before I never noticed how this was throwing off the proportion of my lower face, and I completely agreed. This would be hard to change, and it more of a soft tissue problem. Another issue is that my lips are very thick. This basically adds to the protruded look. Important tip! Another area of concern that we discussed was how the procedure would affect my nose. As I have mentioned previously, I had prior rhinoplasty and did not want to alter the result. From previous research by reading the literature and medical journals, I learned that surgery on the maxilla (upper jaw) would affect the nose and nasolabial angle one way or another. However, moving the jaw forward has a bigger effect (such as creating an upturned nose showing more nostrils) compared to moving the upper jaw backward, which is what I needed to have done. I still wanted to hear Dr. Lee’s professional opinion, and he reassured me that moving the upper jaw backward in my case would not make my nasal tip upturn. He did say that it could still have a flaring effect on the nostrils, but he could use an alar cinch method to help prevent the nostrils from flaring. I am happy to say that the outcome of my surgery did not make my nose flare or upturn! The only illusion effect that pushing the jaws back was that it made my nose look more projected which I liked. I did not know that I would be doing jaw surgery after rhinoplasty or I would have planned accordingly… Please consider this if you are planning to do multiple surgeries. I would suggest you do facial bone procedures before any soft tissue procedures. Remember, the bones are the base and foundation in which soft tissues sit on. Finally, I asked Dr. Lee if he thinks that doing v-line would enhance my appearance. I like a narrower face but wasn’t sure if reducing bone or muscle would help. I am hesitant about v-line because I didn’t want an egg-shaped face. I like sharp jawlines. Dr. Lee actually did not recommend me to have any v-line procedures and said that I did not need it. I think this shows that he is an honest doctor and doesn’t overtreat, compared to other clinics I consulted with. After this first consultation, I had to let the thought of double jaw surgery sink in since I would not be doing ASO. My first experience consulting with Dr. Lee at TFD was informative, and I was sure that I would come back after thinking more about double jaw surgery. My consultation experience with Dr. Lee was detailed compared to others and I think a part of that is because he is able to communicate well in English. He allows me to ask questions and during the consultation, I didn’t feel rushed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gray-zone Posted November 12, 2018 Author Share Posted November 12, 2018 Fast forward one year later, July 2018… Zeah Dental My consultation at Zeah started off with speaking to Candy, their English/Chinese consultant. Her English was not the best, but enough to get by. I started off by taking pictures and x-rays and creating a dental mold or impression. Then I met with Dr. K after and we looked at my x-rays. He also looked at the dental mold but didn’t refer to it much. He did not have a simulation program, but he drew on the image software with his computer mouse. By looking at my x-ray he told me that my upper jaw bone was protruded by 5.1mm from the standard. The same plan was suggested; double jaw surgery, sliding genioplasty. He said ASO would over correct the protrusion. My face would look too dished in. He noticed the long philtrum issue as well and mentioned my upper jaw being short. He would lengthen it by rotating it downwards. Dr. K did not show me photos of patients with similar cases and he also did not speak much English. After he left the room, the English consultant, Candy, explained to me the costs. This was when she mentioned v-line, and I was confused because Dr. K did not mention anything about v-line at all during our consultation. Candy then said that without v-line, the genioplasty chin advancement could create a secondary angle or “step” so v-line was necessary. This made me feel a bit hesitant and uncomfortable, and it felt like she was trying to upsell this procedure to me because not once did Dr. K mentioned v-line when I spoke with him. Even if that was his treatment plan, he did not mention it to me… (In American health care, one thing we emphasize for patient care is informed consent. The patient should know about the details of treatment, the pros and cons, and other alternatives to make an informed decision. But of course, I understood there are big cultural differences.) Candy told me I could make a second consultation to ask Dr. K more about v-line, but at this point, I just decided to cross off Zeah. There was no consultation fee. EU Dental Later that week, I went to consult with EU Dental. They had an in-house translator who spoke very good English. She was friendly and very understanding of my situation. I honestly felt that she was on my side throughout the whole consultation. Prior to the meeting, I had sent her some photos of looks that inspire me. She showed these to Dr. Kim. I also had to take a dental impression here. Dr. Kim used it to show how the midline of my bite was off. He also confirmed that my case would not need braces if I kept my bite the same. Again, this doctor also pointed out my long philtrum and said that was a big difference in my face compared to the faces that I showed in the photos. He recommended double jaw surgery and a T-osteotomy for my chin enhancement. However, I did not agree to T-osteotomy because that would make the chin look narrower and pointier. So then instead, he if we don’t do it that way then he won’t be able to meet my expectations. He would do an implant instead. As I’ve already learned from researching (and as Dr. Oh mentioned), an implant would not be able to increase the vertical length (chin height) so I don’t know why he would go with that procedure. That made decide not to with EU Dental. After realizing I was hesitant, the consultant lady seemed pretty pushy and tried to really convince me to go with EU Dental. I liked the English translator that they had thought. She was kind. The consultation fee was $50. Back to The Face Dental I went back to Dr. Lee because I had the best impression with him and the clinic. I had my second consultation with Dr. Lee on July 28. We laughed about how it has been exactly one year since our first consultation. Again, we talked about my case and treatment plan. The procedures were the same, and I was able to clarify a few more questions with him. He did say that to realign the midline of my bite, I would need to get braces after. I wasn’t sure when I was able to get braces, so I decided to keep my same bite. However, after discussing my case with the orthodontist, he said we could improve the midline. I was a bit hesitant about changing the bite and didn’t feel too sure. But Dr. Lee reassured me that it will be changed in a safe range. I do understand that I would need braces in the future at this point if I wasn’t comfortable with my bite and if I wanted a more perfect bite. I explained my future plans with Dr. Lee and we laughed about how I am so rushed. I wanted to have the surgery on August 13th after my job contract ended, and then fly back to America on the 24th. And I would start school on the 27th. I know that this wouldn’t be as optimal because it is recommended that you stay for a least 1 month for this surgery, especially if they have to check your bite if you need braces afterward. However, I’ve heard of some people staying for only 2 weeks, so I think it depends on your specific case and treatment. Preparation A week after, I came back to the clinic so that they could take my measurements and dental impressions. I was also instructed to go to a nearby clinic to get lab tests done to check that my blood, x-ray, and EKG results are good. Everything was all good, and I would be having surgery that follows week on August 13th. Here are some useful things to bring: - Neck pillow: this will help you so much when you are sleeping upright. You won’t be able to lay down and must sleep in a sitting position. - Hydrogen peroxide and cotton swabs: there will be lots of congestion in the nose if you are having upper jaw surgery and this will really help you clean out your nose and help you breath better! You are also able to use a decongestant nasal spray, but you shouldn’t use it too much because it will irritate your nose. - Lip ointment: your mouth will be stretched open and lips can get dry. Luckily, I did not have that problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gray-zone Posted November 12, 2018 Author Share Posted November 12, 2018 Surgery Day! The night before, I got a full night’s rest of 7 hours and had fasted for 12 hours. For some reason, I didn’t feel too nervous, maybe just a little anxious. Dr. Lee had one last quick consult with me before the surgery and then it was time to go to the operating room. The nurse walking me down asked if I was feeling nervous, but I was just mostly excited, to be honest. I’ve wanted this for so long, and I trusted Dr. Lee, so there was no need to worry. Your mindset is so important so you need to stay positive from beginning to end. I laid down on the operating table, and before I knew it, I was fast asleep... I woke up having the nurses wheel me to my recovery room. I was told to focus on breathing because I need to breathe out the anesthesia. The first day was the hardest! I had one breathing tube down my nostril and at the time the only thing I was thinking about was my nose but I couldn’t feel it. There was blood coming out of it, as expected. It was hard to breathe and I felt very sleepy and tired. The inside of my throat was so sore and swollen with the tube down there and my mouth was rubber banded shut. The other challenge was to try not to choke on my spit and cough because of my swollen throat. Tilting my head back would also cause me to choke on spit. So I had to keep drooling out my saliva into tissue paper. I was also so thirsty but wasn’t allowed to have anything to drink until 8 hours. Those first eight hours were very challenging, but I was able to stay positive and push through. I was not able to sleep that night. The next day was also very uncomfortable. I am able to drink some supplement drinks that the clinic provided. I needed to use a small syringe to drink. I had enough energy to text some of my friends. I also took some walks around the halls because I didn’t want to sit all day. Plus, being more active will help recovery. That day Dr. Lee came in to check on me and said that I was doing well. He said my swelling was not bad. The second day after surgery, I was able to leave the clinic and went to my friend’s place to stay. I think I was not able to sleep until the fourth day. I don’t know how I just felt so alert! Maybe because I was just extra aware of the discomfort. I’ve been drinking a lot of juices, and protein shakes with milk. I also tried to drink some broth from soups because I was craving something savory. I had some tingling sensations which are normal, but luckily, I have all feelings in my face! I think Dr. Lee did a great job of preventing damage to the nerves. A few days later, I came back to the clinic to change the rubber bands and to clean the stitches. During my free time, I took a lot of walks around the neighborhood for at least 30 minutes every day. This was my exercise and walking helps with the swelling! During my second checkup… Good news! Dr. Lee said that my current status is way better than his patients at this 1-week mark! The stitches are looking good and so is the swelling. Also, he said I could start eating soft foods at the two-week mark to be on the safe side. These would be things like some yogurt, scrambled eggs, and porridge. Also, there’s a good porridge place around Seoul called Bon Juk. I went there to eat a lot. Anyway, during this checkup, I was also given a red-light treatment to help with the swelling. It felt very warm and relaxing, I tried not to fall asleep. I remember asking Dr. Lee if the plates would cause the sensors to go off at the airport, but they wouldn’t because they are made of titanium. Other good news, my throat has healed up and I am not choking on spit anymore! This also makes sleeping so much easier. I’m starting to get more than just four hours at a time. I had my last check up the following day and this time I had some small screws on the outside removed. Only four were left in place so that I could still use my rubber bands. It did not hurt at all to take out those screws, and after Dr. Lee showed me how to put on the rubber bands by myself. I asked him to take a look at my stitches because my friend made me laugh so much the night before. Everything thing was fine. The stitches will dissolve after about two weeks. I was already comfortable with not walking around with a mask now because the swelling has gone down more. During this week I lost so much weight, it’s crazy! I couldn’t wait to gain weight again and eat a lot. As for eating, during the first 2 months in addition to blending anything I can, I would just mash things up into small pieces with my spoon and did more swallowing than chewing. I figured this isn’t good for the digestive system as it would be a lot of work for the stomach since I wasn’t chewing much and just mashing food with my tongue. I took enzyme supplements with every meal to help digest the absorb the food better. Also, I took some other supplements to try to help speed up the healing process. Some supplements I took, and am still taking are bromelain, vitamin c, turmeric, quercetin, along with daily multivitamins. These supplements are anti-inflammatory! During the first two weeks, I also used an arnica gel over my face at least three times a day. It is supposed to help with bruising and swelling. You might notice more swelling after eating because you are working the muscles. Now, after 13-weeks after surgery, I am going to the gym regularly again. It is okay to start exercising after the first 4 weeks. But it was uncomfortable for me to lift heavy weights as I would feel the pressure build up in my face. I am eating more normal now! I’m able to bite into sandwiches and pizza. I am still staying away from hard foods like almonds and apples. As of now, I can still tell there is some residual swelling left, which is normal. I can't wait to see the changes after 12 more weeks! Right now I like my side profile. It is such a big improvement! I will attach pictures so that you can see the changes in swelling. I do plan on visiting Seoul and Dr. Lee during my winter vacation coming up soon. So, I will update then! ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seoullite Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Thanks for sharing your detailed story! Your nose looks great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seoullite Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Omg why did I write nose. I meant jaw lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emma99 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 thanks for the sharing. Congrats. seems like ur recovery rate is so fast. did u need braces after operation? and if u don't mind, can u dm me how much u pay? coz i'm planning to go korea on coming feb and TFD is my top choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawko Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Hi. Thank you for your story. I would like to go to the face dental clinic for V line....but I'm scared of risk. They cut the bones.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nellac Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Thanks for sharing!! The jaw looks sooo goood, so congrats hehe. Also, do you mind like dming the price? I heard TFD is quite expensive lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassygrl Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Congrats !! You healed very fast! Do u kind sharing a before and after from The front as well? I’ll be going there ina. Couple of days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonize Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Holy sh1t,, your results are absolutely amazing. Please do keep us updated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloris Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Thank you for such a thurough review! Your pictures look amazing. I am considering double jaw and am comparing clinics, I am a little worried about getting a foreigner upcharge. So I was wondering: -did you negotiate a lower price? -how much did u end up paying? (if ur ok with sharing or plz dm me) Thank you in advance & good luck in grad school that is where I am now lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wangsfastfood Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 One of the great things about Dr Lee is he charges local and foreigner the same price. He doesnt mark up his price ridiculously because you aren't from Korea. I really liked him when I talked to him on skype and I will be seeing him in a bit over a week for my f2f consultation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlydzz Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 Based on many reviews ive read from him from real patients and me personally going there, he does not charge foreigners ridiculous prices so it is fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gray-zone Posted April 6, 2019 Author Share Posted April 6, 2019 Hey guys, I can't believe it's already been about 8 months since the surgery. I am finally feeling more like this is my face. I can tell that the last bit of residual swelling is continuing to reduce! During the last couple of months loss of muscle mass in my face because of recovery (like when you stop going to the gym you lose a lot of muscle and become too skinny) made me look a bit saggy and older and plus will the swelling I just didn't feel like myself. My eyes got a little droopy because my temples (where the temporalis chewing muscles are) lost a lot of mass too. I just wanna let you guys know to just be patient!! I have gained my normal facial muscle mass back and look a lot more healthy. It takes time for the muscles to regain its strength and mass! Especially since I was being extra cautious to not chew too forcefully. Stay positive during recovery it will take time but will go well! As for my philtrum, it did lengthen a bit as I expected, so hopefully when I can more time I can research good clinics in Korea for doing an upper lip lift (philtrum reduction) along will lip reduction. I've also naturally had a longer upper lip so this would of eventually need to be done anyway haha. But I'm doing well, there's just a bit of tingling on the lower left side of my chin and some numbness on the upper left jaw but I'm sure that will heal in time. Nerves take a long time to heal. I'm sure that the final results won't be seen until at least the one year mark and I can't wait! In terms of pricing, Dr. Lee is very fair! I believe I was charged the local price. I can guarantee that you will get great results for the best price. Out of all the clinics, TFD was the most affordable. Here's a physical therapy guide that should be helpful the following months during recovery to help you regain your jaw flexibility quickly! I know that it can be a little intimidating but working on doing a light stretch and movement daily will aide recovery process and help facilitate tissue and collagen reformation. Exercising your jaw and stretching will also will with scar tissue healing! https://healthcare.utah.edu/ent/docs/physical-therapy-tmj-post-op-instructions.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cythr Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 Your results look really amazing. I'm also looking into an upper lip lift and the best clinic I've seen so far in Korea is Hyundai aesthetics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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