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honeyjello

Consultation experience for revision DES and tip plasty

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Hey guys! I've posted my consultation experiences for revision double eyelid surgery and tip plasty in the kakao chatgroup, but I thought I'd make a thread here to consolidate everything and make it easier for everyone to view and refer to.

Just for your info, I just came back from Korea a week ago, and had my consults done during the 1st weeks of Nov. 

All clinics consulted: Cocoline, MVP, Hanabi, Namu and Naturalism (was supposed to also consult at Oscar Clinic for eyes but cancelled in the end because I wasn't fully comfortable with a doctor who is not a board certified plastic surgeon for revision eyelid surgery)

For reference, here are my pictures of my eyes and nose.  Do not repost my pictures.

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Edited by honeyjello
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What I consulted about: Revision for DES to make my crease a bit more noticeable and less hooded than it is right now, and tiplasty to slim the bulbous nose tip. Note that the crease on my right eye (the one of the left) is a bit wonky at the inner corner due to a bit of a scar from the incision, probably due to my skin's tendency to have hypertrophic scars easily.

Clinics: For nose - Cocoline, Mvp, namu, hanabi and naturalism; For eyes - MVP, Namu and Naturalism

I'll start off with my nose consultations. I went to Cocoline, Mvp, namu, hanabi and naturalism, in that order.

1) Cocoline

Cocoline (Dr Kim Tae Hwan)

Consult duration: lasted abt 50mins-1hr; Went with a translator

Consult fee: 10,000 won

Clinic was quite small, felt like your regular specialist doctor's clinic than a PS clinic.

Dr Kim was really friendly and even asked how i came to know about Cocoline, he could speak a bit of English. No CT scan done but he did use his headlight and long Qtips to assess inside of my nose, also touched and pinched my nose a lot to assess. Dr said that my nose was a wee bit deviated but still within normal range so no worry about it. And he busted out a brief Powerpoint slideshow to explain the procedure and the parts of my nose that he would change for the surgery.

Just tip plasty using septal cartilage (and maybe ear only if septal is not enough) was recommended. I have thick skin and fatty tissue at nasal tip so Dr said he will remove some fatty tissue there. Septal cartilage will be used for tip projection and to support the nose tip. The cartilage tip of the nose will be sutured together with septal cartilage as support. Open rhino method. Septal cartilage will also be used to smoothen out the gap between my tip and bridge where there is a slight depression.

No need for osteotomy or addition of implant for raising bridge height as i have enough bridge height and my nose bridge is not wide. He did tell me hat I have a decent bridge and when I told him (via my translator) that I was not looking for bridge augmentation, he said "Wow, you're not greedy for big change for your nose". Hehe.

Surgery will be done under sleep anaesthesia and around 1hr surgery time. Downtime of 10 days and stitches will be removed from day 5 onwards. Aftercare is just cleaning of wound and removal of packing, deswelling injection given if necessary.

Price: 3.85mil won (final price if paid by cash, no tax refund). Discounted price to 3.3mil won if i do B&A photos of nose only. Price inclusive of medications.

2) MVP

MVP (consult for nose first, I will talk about eyes later)  - Dr Seo Hyo Seok

Consult duration coupled with eyes review consult: about 25mins

Consult with Dr Seo was quite quick (he's straight to the point, mild mannered and polite but quite no nonsense) but he knows what he's talking about and also did the same pinching of my nose tip as Cocoline.

Dr observed that from bottom view, my nose is not completely straight, like not totally symmetrical but said this is still in the normal range (because everyone is bound to have some assymetry) and not a major concern. Same assessment as Cocoline - fatty tissue and thick nasal tip skin. Also septal cartilage for tip plasty recommended, again same method as Cocoline's. Dr Seo said my nose tip will be a bit more projected but with time there is chance it may drop, but just drop back till my current nose height and not to a very droopy nose. He also warned against removing too much fatty tissue and making my tip too slim as I have thick skin, and too much done could cause skin necrosis, so my nose tip will just be slimmed a little (more natural and not dramatic kind of slim nose).

Again, no need to touch my bridge as it is fine. Septal cartilage will be used to smoothen out the bridge (same as Cocoline's). Open rhino, stitches out in a week, with 10 days of downtime.

Procedure done under Partial GA, breathing tube inserted till back of throat and not all the way in. Pre-op tests will be blood test, echogram and chest x-ray done 1 day before surgery, if not then done on same day but in the morning but afternoon slot for surgery.

Price: 4.4 mil won (can get tax refund). Price inclusive of medications, after care of cleaning and deswelling treatments etc

3) Namu

Namu (consult for nose first, i'll talk about eyes later) - Dr Joung Soo Woo

Consult duration coupled with eyes consult: about 25mins

Namu's PS clinic is pretty small, like MVP and looks like your standard plastic surgery clinic. Not super fancy like some PS clinics can be. But they do have another level for their dermatologist clinic so they are not exactly super small like those 1 or 2-doctor clinics. I happened to bump into the Chairwoman of the clinic (the 대표님??), a glamorous korean lady in perhaps her mid 50s or so (but can tell she got quite a lot of PS done on her face) on my way out after consultation.

Dr Joung was pretty friendly and also frank in the assessment especially for my eyes. Consult for nose was kinda speedy and shorter than eyes though.

Dr Joung was the only doctor who didn't touch and pinch my nose like the rest during his assessment. He just used the long Qtips to lightly point to and touch my nose tip.

Dr said i have a slight hump on my nose which he suggested removing by shaving it off a little (rasping),  to smoothen out my bridge in addition to the septal cartilage added to smoothen out my nose profile. Removal of some fatty tissue and cartilage and also using septal cartilage to create a slimmer tip and for tip support. My nose tip sill also be projected a little using septal. Open rhino, stitch out after 1 week. Done by sleep anaesthesia.

I didn't get a separate price for nose, as Claire the consultant gave me a bundle price for nose and eyes - 5.6mil won.

4) Hanabi

Hanabi (Dr Chang Geun-Uck)

Consult duration: about 45 mins

No consult fee, but 10,000won is charged for CT scan taken in the clinic prior to consult with Dr. (Option to keep the scan for 30,000 won but i didn't keep my CT scan so i paid 10k won only)

Hanabi is sooo posh! Looked like some hotel lobby when i entered and the high ceiling at the reception and waiting area made it look like a condo penthouse. I was really in awe when i stepped into Hanabi.

Dr Chang was really friendly and spoke close to perfect English. I actually felt nervous because he kept smiling the whole time, which made me feel like i was at a job interview. Dr Chang assessed and showed me my CT scan on his screen and also B & As of his patients who did tip plasty and their results all looked really good - natural like you can't tell they got surgical refinement done, looks like they were born with a good looking slim nose.

Dr's assessment of my CT scan showed that my nasal bone (nose bridge) is slim and not deviated but septum is a bit deviated to the right but still within normal range. No shaving of hump or osteotomy needed. Dr recommended tip plasty using septal cartilage for tip support and to fill out the  depressed gap between my nasal bone and tip. If not enough septal then he will use ear for tip support.

Dr will suture the cartilage with the nasal tip cartilage to slim the nose tip, and remove excess fatty tissue from tip.

Open rhino, stitches out in 5 days after surgery.  Full recovery around 3 months. Blood test done for pre-op test. Surgery done under sleep anaesthesia. Aftercare is the oxygen chamber treatment and laser deswelling, all included in the price.

Price: USD$3850, approx 4.4mil won inclusive of tax. Can get tax refund. Medicines not included in cost (to be bought from the pharmacy on the 1st floor, and costs about USD$40 as told to me by their English translator)

5) Naturalism

Naturalism (Dr Kim Deok Jung)

Consult duration: abt 20 mins, went with a translator.

This was actually a last minute addition, on top of my eyes consult there, as my translator told me Dr Kim's AM surgery was cancelled due to his patient's unsuitable health condition, hence he had an available slot to see me for nose consultation.

Naturalism is a pretty small clinic like Namu. Not super fancy but the interior was really bright like Namu. (so much white haha) I'll talk about my eyes consult with the other doctor later. Dr Kim was pretty friendly too, and Lol he had Ahjussi curly hair haha.

Dr Kim did the pinching of my nose like the other doctors to assess. Dr assessed that my nose bridge is quite high and not wide so I don't need any silicone implant to add height and no need osteotomy, but i do have a slight hump which he suggested to shave off to smoothen my bridge (same as Namu's suggestion). Similar to what the rest of the clinics suggested, between my nasal bone and tip cartilage there is a gap and depression, hence he will use septal cartilage to fill that out. Tip plasty done with septal and maybe ear cartilage, and nose tip will be projected a bit so it is less droopy. Dr will place septal cartilage for support and suture nose tip cartilage together. Again, excess fatty tissue at nose tip to be removed to make my tip slimmer. Done under sleep anaesthesia, Open rhino, stitch removal at columella done after 1 week. Stitch inside the nose where the septal and tip cartilage is sutured together is done using dissolvable stitches which is removed 2 weeks post-op. Hence, it's best to stay at least 2 weeks. Dissolvable stitches can be left in the nose but it may be uncomfortable. Full recovery around 6 months post op, in order for nose to feel like back to normal and other features like smile to feel and look normal, less stiff.

Price: 4.7mil won (cash price, pay by card will have extra fees for card transaction). Price inclusive of medications and after care of deswelling treatment and skin cleansing treatment.

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Now I'll talk about my eye surgery consults. I went to MVP, Namu and Naturalism in that order.

1) MVP

MVP (Dr Seo)

Consult duration coupled with nose consult: about 25mins

MVP is where I did my primary DES hence I went back for a review since I am 6 months post op, and also to ask Dr Seo about revision since I felt my crease is hooded over.

Dr Seo assessed my eyes and told me that if i wanted revision to make my crease more obvious while still maintaining a tapered crease, he will remove a but more skin to reveal more of my crease. This will be done by re-opening my existing creaseline. He and my consultant Elizabeth did tell me that I cannot remove too much skin or else I won't be able to close my eyes fully, since pre-op I already did not have fully closed eyelids (there was a slight gap when I closed my eyes back pre-DES), and also due to my natural eye socket shape and low distance between my brows and eyes, too high a crease and too much skin removal is not suitable for me. If I wanted a higher crease line from the one I have currently, the new crease will end up parallel but a bit higher, and Dr also said he will cut along the same incision line to increase the size of crease. Dr did not mention i needed any ptosis correction nor epicanthoplasty, just skin removal.

Dr Seo advised me to wait for longer before doing revision to see how much my eyelid skin has stretched out, which may help the scar on the inner corner of my right eye too. Since that was also my concern - whether the scar is a permanent keloid formation. He told me the scar will flatten and smoothen out with more time.

Recovery time would be the same or a little bit longer from primary DES, which is about a week. Stitch removal done at 5 days post op. Like my primary surgery, incisional DES revision will be done under local anaesthesia and twilight sedation.

Since I did my primary surgery at MVP, the revision would be done for free and I only have to pay for anaesthesia cost of 300,000 won. Medications, post op care of cleaning, deswelling laser and vitamin drips are included into the cost. And this revision period is valid for 2 years.

2) Namu

Namu (Dr Joung Soo Woo)

Consult duration coupled with nose consult: about 25mins

Dr Joung advised that if I wanted a more obvious crease,  he will redo my creaseline by cutting a bit higher and removing abit of skin. It'll also be done full incisional and he said my incision line from primary surgery will still remain but not be very obvious. The new crease will still be an in-out tapered fold. Epicanthoplasty was recommended to me to open up and remove abit of mongolian fold, and ptosis correction for both eyes to balance out my eyes. Dr says my right eye opening power is a bit weaker hence the inner corner eyelid scar seems obvious. I asked about the scar and he told me that it will soften, but my right eye crease seems a bit loosened due to the scar.

Like Dr Seo at MVP, Dr Joung said I cannot remove too much skin or go too high a crease or else I cannot close my eyes, because structurally I don't have a lot of eyelid space between brows, and also because of my eye socket bone. A much higher crease will be too close to my socket bone which will look unnatural and ugly. Dr was frank with me and said that due to my eye structure, I will still have some skin covering over even with revision.

In fact, Dr was very honest and told me that he didn't think my case is that bad that it seriously needs revision so he was just providing a neutral opinion about revision surgery and the choice to revise is up to me. Claire the consultant (Linda wasn't around when I went so they assigned me Claire instead) also told me that Dr Joung is a doctor who is very honest with patients about what he thinks they do and don't need for surgery.

Stitch removal will be done 1 week post op. Cost for revision with all procedures (epi, ptosis and des) will be 3 mil won, and no need to pay tax, and some discount is possible in exchange for photos of my eyes.

I didn't ask about aftercare provided but I suppose it should be the same that other girls who went to Namu have received, the deswelling laser/shots etc. As I earlier mentioned, I was surprised that my consult with Dr Joung for eyes lasted a bit longer than for nose.

3) Naturalism

Naturalism (Dr Jung Minsoo)

Consult duration: about 20mins, went with a translator

I initially wanted to consult with Dr Go Eung Yeol, one of the head doctors who specializes in eyelid surgery but unfortunately he was on vacation. Hence, I decided to book an appointment to consult with Dr Jung after the clinic's recommendation for an alternative doctor for eyes, and also after I saw a korean girl's DES result in a korean Kakao chatroom, which was done by Dr Jung and looked good to me.

Dr Jung was pretty quiet when he came to the consultation room and I guess he wasn't expecting to a foreign patient to book an appointment with him for consultation since he looked a bit puzzled at first. But he was nice enough and was honest and straight to the point about my options for revision. Even though he isn't a head doctor at the clinic and he was the youngest doctor out of all the surgeons I had consulted (perhaps in his mid 30s?), I felt he was very professional in his honest opinions regarding revision and he seemed to know his stuff really well.

Dr Jung assessed my eyelids and told me that my eyelids have limitation as to how much bigger my crease can be, as I have thick skin. My hooded lids now is due to thick skin and not fat. In addition, I am also limited by the low eyelid space between my eyelids and brows, which echoes MVP and Namu's opinions.

Dr Jung drew out on paper and presented me 2 options for revision surgery to get a more obvious crease. 1st option was to revise my crease by cutting a higher line above my existing one, but then I will have 2 scars visible after that. 2nd option was to reopen my existing crease and cut away a bit more skin but not too much because i don't have much to cut away or else I cannot close my eyes properly permanently (same as MVP's advice). Dr recommended me to go for the 2nd option as going for the 1st option may cause me to end up with sausage eyes or lids still hooding over due to my skin.

Dr also suggest to do ptosis correction as he said I looked a bit sleepy eyed, and epicanthoplasty to remove the a bit of the mongolian fold and open up inner corner a bit so my crease appears a little more prominent as an in-out fold.

During the revision, Dr said he will tighten up the right side where there is the scar as it appears loose due to the scar tissue, and remove the scar tissue a bit. Because I am prone to scarring, the same problem of raised scar could recur. Like what the other 2 clinics said, Dr Jung told me that even with revision to make the crease more visible, there is chance that my skin may hood over again in future due to my thick eyelid skin. Due to my natural eye shape, I also cannot have too high a crease because it will look unnatural and sausage-like on me.

Stitches removal done at 1 week post op. Price was 5.17 mil won cash price for all procedures (epi, ptosis and revision DES). Price is inclusive of medications and aftercare of deswelling treatments.

 

All in all, for eye consults, the doctors had the same opinion that I needed to remove a bit more skin to make my crease more visible, and that I cannot go for too high creases due to my eye socket limitations.

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Thank you for sharing girl! Did you have to book the appointments with the consultant online? I am looking to get rhino and seems like they quoted you much lower than what I got from online. 

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Wow this is really nice and detailed break down! Thank you for posting

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On 11/16/2018 at 12:32 AM, Nikki said:

Thank you for sharing girl! Did you have to book the appointments with the consultant online? I am looking to get rhino and seems like they quoted you much lower than what I got from online. 

Hi Nikki,

Yup, i booked all my consult appointments beforehand. It's best to book before your trip to Korea, especially if you are short on time, so you don't waste time waiting in queue to see the doctor if you do a walk-in consult. Plus, there's no guarantee you can consult with the doctor of your choice, or even getting a chance to consult (especially during peak PS seasons or for certain clinics where you meed to book months in advance) if you do a walk-in.

For Naturalism, i had to get the help of my translator after I hired her service, to book an appointment with the clinic, as I was having difficulties communicating with the clinic to book a consultation slot via kakao due to the language barrier.

Edited by honeyjello
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@honeyjello nice beauty hacking, very good insights into the clinics in this post and the consultation experience. 

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On 11/15/2018 at 9:34 AM, honeyjello said:

Now I'll talk about my eye surgery consults. I went to MVP, Namu and Naturalism in that order.

1) MVP

MVP (Dr Seo)

Consult duration coupled with nose consult: about 25mins

MVP is where I did my primary DES hence I went back for a review since I am 6 months post op, and also to ask Dr Seo about revision since I felt my crease is hooded over.

Dr Seo assessed my eyes and told me that if i wanted revision to make my crease more obvious while still maintaining a tapered crease, he will remove a but more skin to reveal more of my crease. This will be done by re-opening my existing creaseline. He and my consultant Elizabeth did tell me that I cannot remove too much skin or else I won't be able to close my eyes fully, since pre-op I already did not have fully closed eyelids (there was a slight gap when I closed my eyes back pre-DES), and also due to my natural eye socket shape and low distance between my brows and eyes, too high a crease and too much skin removal is not suitable for me. If I wanted a higher crease line from the one I have currently, the new crease will end up parallel but a bit higher, and Dr also said he will cut along the same incision line to increase the size of crease. Dr did not mention i needed any ptosis correction nor epicanthoplasty, just skin removal.

Dr Seo advised me to wait for longer before doing revision to see how much my eyelid skin has stretched out, which may help the scar on the inner corner of my right eye too. Since that was also my concern - whether the scar is a permanent keloid formation. He told me the scar will flatten and smoothen out with more time.

Recovery time would be the same or a little bit longer from primary DES, which is about a week. Stitch removal done at 5 days post op. Like my primary surgery, incisional DES revision will be done under local anaesthesia and twilight sedation.

Since I did my primary surgery at MVP, the revision would be done for free and I only have to pay for anaesthesia cost of 300,000 won. Medications, post op care of cleaning, deswelling laser and vitamin drips are included into the cost. And this revision period is valid for 2 years.

2) Namu

Namu (Dr Joung Soo Woo)

Consult duration coupled with nose consult: about 25mins

Dr Joung advised that if I wanted a more obvious crease,  he will redo my creaseline by cutting a bit higher and removing abit of skin. It'll also be done full incisional and he said my incision line from primary surgery will still remain but not be very obvious. The new crease will still be an in-out tapered fold. Epicanthoplasty was recommended to me to open up and remove abit of mongolian fold, and ptosis correction for both eyes to balance out my eyes. Dr says my right eye opening power is a bit weaker hence the inner corner eyelid scar seems obvious. I asked about the scar and he told me that it will soften, but my right eye crease seems a bit loosened due to the scar.

Like Dr Seo at MVP, Dr Joung said I cannot remove too much skin or go too high a crease or else I cannot close my eyes, because structurally I don't have a lot of eyelid space between brows, and also because of my eye socket bone. A much higher crease will be too close to my socket bone which will look unnatural and ugly. Dr was frank with me and said that due to my eye structure, I will still have some skin covering over even with revision.

In fact, Dr was very honest and told me that he didn't think my case is that bad that it seriously needs revision so he was just providing a neutral opinion about revision surgery and the choice to revise is up to me. Claire the consultant (Linda wasn't around when I went so they assigned me Claire instead) also told me that Dr Joung is a doctor who is very honest with patients about what he thinks they do and don't need for surgery.

Stitch removal will be done 1 week post op. Cost for revision with all procedures (epi, ptosis and des) will be 3 mil won, and no need to pay tax, and some discount is possible in exchange for photos of my eyes.

I didn't ask about aftercare provided but I suppose it should be the same that other girls who went to Namu have received, the deswelling laser/shots etc. As I earlier mentioned, I was surprised that my consult with Dr Joung for eyes lasted a bit longer than for nose.

3) Naturalism

Naturalism (Dr Jung Minsoo)

Consult duration: about 20mins, went with a translator

I initially wanted to consult with Dr Go Eung Yeol, one of the head doctors who specializes in eyelid surgery but unfortunately he was on vacation. Hence, I decided to book an appointment to consult with Dr Jung after the clinic's recommendation for an alternative doctor for eyes, and also after I saw a korean girl's DES result in a korean Kakao chatroom, which was done by Dr Jung and looked good to me.

Dr Jung was pretty quiet when he came to the consultation room and I guess he wasn't expecting to a foreign patient to book an appointment with him for consultation since he looked a bit puzzled at first. But he was nice enough and was honest and straight to the point about my options for revision. Even though he isn't a head doctor at the clinic and he was the youngest doctor out of all the surgeons I had consulted (perhaps in his mid 30s?), I felt he was very professional in his honest opinions regarding revision and he seemed to know his stuff really well.

Dr Jung assessed my eyelids and told me that my eyelids have limitation as to how much bigger my crease can be, as I have thick skin. My hooded lids now is due to thick skin and not fat. In addition, I am also limited by the low eyelid space between my eyelids and brows, which echoes MVP and Namu's opinions.

Dr Jung drew out on paper and presented me 2 options for revision surgery to get a more obvious crease. 1st option was to revise my crease by cutting a higher line above my existing one, but then I will have 2 scars visible after that. 2nd option was to reopen my existing crease and cut away a bit more skin but not too much because i don't have much to cut away or else I cannot close my eyes properly permanently (same as MVP's advice). Dr recommended me to go for the 2nd option as going for the 1st option may cause me to end up with sausage eyes or lids still hooding over due to my skin.

Dr also suggest to do ptosis correction as he said I looked a bit sleepy eyed, and epicanthoplasty to remove the a bit of the mongolian fold and open up inner corner a bit so my crease appears a little more prominent as an in-out fold.

During the revision, Dr said he will tighten up the right side where there is the scar as it appears loose due to the scar tissue, and remove the scar tissue a bit. Because I am prone to scarring, the same problem of raised scar could recur. Like what the other 2 clinics said, Dr Jung told me that even with revision to make the crease more visible, there is chance that my skin may hood over again in future due to my thick eyelid skin. Due to my natural eye shape, I also cannot have too high a crease because it will look unnatural and sausage-like on me.

Stitches removal done at 1 week post op. Price was 5.17 mil won cash price for all procedures (epi, ptosis and revision DES). Price is inclusive of medications and aftercare of deswelling treatments.

 

All in all, for eye consults, the doctors had the same opinion that I needed to remove a bit more skin to make my crease more visible, and that I cannot go for too high creases due to my eye socket limitatio/ns.

Girl! May I know were you ended up going?

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4 hours ago, Nikki said:

Girl! May I know were you ended up going?

Hey Nikki, I only went for consults. Have not done any nose surgery yet, still abit chicken and deciding wether to touch my nose or not.

For eyes, I am thinking of revision next year (hopefully!), depending on my work schedule, and condition of my eyes because i just got an eye check appointment by an ophthalmologist this week, and she told me I have very dry eyes, DES could have been a contributing factor. 😭 So i may have to see if my eye dryness improves before deciding when to do revision.

Edited by honeyjello
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3 hours ago, honeyjello said:

Hey Nikki, I only went for consults. Have not done any nose surgery yet, still abit chicken and deciding wether to touch my nose or not.

For eyes, I am thinking of revision next year (hopefully!), depending on my work schedule, and condition of my eyes because i just got an eye check appointment by an ophthalmologist this week, and she told me I have very dry eyes, DES could have been a contributing factor. 😭 So i may have to see if my eye dryness improves before deciding when to do revision.

I see i see! I didn't know DES would be a contributing factor. Are you going to get rhino at the same time? I was checking out naturalism. Their price seems to be more than other clinics. Do you know who is the head doctor for rhino? 

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3 hours ago, Nikki said:

I see i see! I didn't know DES would be a contributing factor. Are you going to get rhino at the same time? I was checking out naturalism. Their price seems to be more than other clinics. Do you know who is the head doctor for rhino? 

Yeah, i didn't know too because most of the plastic surgeons i asked (even the one i went to in my country for transconjunctival undereye bag removal subsequently) told me there is no correlation between the two.

Yup naturalism is kinda higher priced. Not the most expensive clinic out there but not super affordable like places like Namu or Opera etc. Their head doctor for rhino is Dr Kim Deok Jung,  the one i had my last minute f2f consult with. He's pretty nice.

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On 12/14/2018 at 1:53 PM, honeyjello said:

Yeah, i didn't know too because most of the plastic surgeons i asked (even the one i went to in my country for transconjunctival undereye bag removal subsequently) told me there is no correlation between the two.

Yup naturalism is kinda higher priced. Not the most expensive clinic out there but not super affordable like places like Namu or Opera etc. Their head doctor for rhino is Dr Kim Deok Jung,  the one i had my last minute f2f consult with. He's pretty nice.

Thank you for the info girl. When are you going to get your rhino? i am thinking about consulting in April and hopefully I could find one i like and get the surgery on the same trip. 

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