marshypeep Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 So as I continue my journey for v-line & lower face contour, I have obviously ran into the great worry about face sagging. I feel like every person I come across has talked about face sagging after v-line. But whenever I see instances of male-to-female transgender people undergoing facial feminization surgery (including jaw/chin shaving), there are never devastating effects or complaints of premature aging & sagging. They say it is all worth it, at worst botched hairline or nose, but never face sag. It's all the same--just cutting bone, right? I would think since you are starting with a man, who has stronger & bigger bones, there would be more sag because more bone removed to become a woman. Do biologically male individuals just have better skin elasticity and durability compared to biological women? Do Korean methods just cause more issues since they are generally less conservative and unafraid of risk? As far as I know, nobody in the US or EU does true v-line. I still cannot tell whether going to Korea for FC or finding someone who specializes in FFS in another country is the way to go. Any thoughts on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstewa54 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 It seems like Koreans do more drastic reductions in the jaw/chin. If that’s your goal, I’d go there. There’s a post on here about reputable ones, speaking to clinics directly compared to tourism sites, speaking in Korean to possibly get a lower quote (google translate), not getting talked into more surgeries they say you need, staying around apgujeong for any surgeries, etc. In America, they don’t take as much off bone/muscle-wise. Hence less sagging. Don’t go to doctor Jeffrey Spiegel in Boston for anything. He ripped me off massively. He completely didn’t do surgeries I paid for. And then, left a huge bump of bone on my forehead for a forehead feminizing surgery. I couldn’t even afford to sue afterwards. Ten of thousands down the drain and a huge bump on my forehead, not kidding. I heard doctor Keojampa is good for forehead things, heard. Anyways good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshypeep Posted July 24, 2019 Author Share Posted July 24, 2019 I've heard a lot of horror stories about Spiegel, and that his cost comes from reputation and ego and that he doesn't actually do much in terms of dramatic results, and that his forehead work is awful. Also stories about students operating on patients. I'm very sorry you had to go through that and my heart goes out to you. I've researched some FFS stuff myself and hear that Deschamps-Braly is also good for forehead work. I'm looking into The Face Dental and I hear Dr. Lee is fairly conservative, which makes me feel a bit safer cuz I don't wanna become a Black Pink singer and then magically age 10 years in the course of a year. But I am seeing a lot of stuff all around the forum saying that even a little bit of bone reduction will cause sagging no matter what. My jaw is so screwy that I really want this done but it sucks there is so much potential complication down the road.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstewa54 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 Thank you, Yeah Spiegel is a complete rip off with bad work. I considered Dechamps-Braly. Then saw an awful review on google I think which detoured me. As for sagging, maybe a minor lift during the procedure as well? I’ve been considering going to Dr Ho at Regen Hospital because his horror stories are from patients saying he takes too much off, which is what I want as for dramatic results. Or some place with dramatic results. And then maybe a lift after/during. Still researching too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavendine Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 You should reach out to patients who have undergone facial feminization surgery and ask whether they experienced any sagging. My assumption is that the goals are different with FFS and regular v-line. For example, MTF individuals who go through FFS are probably elated that their features are softened and less masculine, so they might be less likely to complain about the side effect of sagging. On the other hand, cis women who get v-line are just trying to have a better jawline, so sagging would be extra noticeable/annoying. I'm a fit woman with a chubby face (thanks, genetics), so currently planning to get v-line, under-the-chin lipo, and botox in the masseter at TFD in 2020. Still undecided on buccal fat reduction because I actually like my youthful baby cheeks and I don't want my face to look sunken-in. But I'm already planning on needing a lift about a year after v-line to deal with potential jowling/sagging. I don't really want to spend the $, but it'll be worth it in the long term. I think if you want to get v-line, you have to assume you'll need a lift after. I consider sagging to be less of a risk and more of a given, whereas the potential for zero sagging would be an outlier/pleasant surprise. Oh, I should add that it would be better to wait until you know exactly how much sagging has occurred before you get a lift. Otherwise, it's wasted money. In other words, don't lift during the v-line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshypeep Posted July 26, 2019 Author Share Posted July 26, 2019 Yeah I've tried reaching out to a few on realself but no reply (I've noticed people usually drop off this site..). Might try reddit. I've browsed susans.org briefly and saw one case too. I did see one who went to Deschamps-Braly who had sagging and recently got a facelift though. Hey that's my plan as well. V-line + masseter botox at TFD sometime in 2020, not sure yet. I am ready to accept the sagging too and budget for it. My jaw is so screwy that this is something I really need to do. I just hope it's worth it and the facelift actually lasts. I'm glad Dr. Lee is a bit more conservative than most Korean doctors though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-couture Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 Actually, v line is a form of facial feminization. Its just the western surgeons don't refer to the procedure as such. Zygoma reduction is also a form of facial feminization. The only facial feminization procedure which is not commonly performed under korea's facial contouring discipline is brow bossing. I assume its because brow bossing is more common amongst caucasian patients since asians have flatter faces and less facial bone depth. Anyway in that regard there's actually no differences to the principles of facial feminization or korean facial contouring. It is essentially the same. I think you don't hear about sagging with patients who's goal is to feminize the face is because: 1) Transitioning patients despite being on hormones are still born biologically male. The male anatomy tends to have stronger muscle laxity than females which is a factor when it comes to minimising sagging post facial contouring 2) For transitioning patients the goal is very different to a biologically born female. That is, to lose the masculine markers in their facial structure in order to be passable. I would assume then that so long as this critical requirement is met, any sagging as a side effect from the procedure isnt a significant concern for transitioning patients given the perceived exchanged is met. I know a caucasian transgender woman in Hong Kong and she literally said to me "I know i got some sagging over here after the surgery but I'll pick looking like a granny over people giving me weird that's a man over there looks any day." I think that tends to be the mentality for alot of transitioning patients. She doesn't look like a granny btw she just worded it like that for dramatic effect lol. Also due to factor 1 the sagging also wouldn't be potentially as noticable as a biologically born female patient Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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