seoulforreal

Got it, yeah that's understandable. You're ok with vitamin e in a multivitamin, but excessive vitamin e can impair wound healing.

 

haha yeah, I totally understand. I feel the same when I travel with my folks. It makes sense for clinics to be on here, but they would be more credible if they just say who they are from the beginning.

 

It's cutting it close, I would advise to prepare your body to be in the most optimal condition for healing. Good diet and exercise, start taking supplements such Vitamin C and Bromelain, a natural occurring anti-inflammatory derived from a pineapple extract.

-No aspirin, vitamin e and omega-3 supplements, smoking, and alcohol at least 2 weeks prior to surgery (recommend a month or more if you can) and at least 1 month after

After surgery rest and recovery with light daily walking when you can (don't over do it)

All else fails, go to a make-up artist at Nordstroms or at a salon, to hide any bruising, or just take a rain check on the wedding, and let your BF know.

 

Three things about me: love to research, social chameleon and empathy

I have a natural curiosity and tendency to over analyze anything I am interested in purchasing, subscribing to, working on, or joining. For example, last week I wanted to buy a food dehydrator, and I researched how they work, the different methods of operation, which ones preserve the most nutrients, etc... This quirk makes me have intermediate knowledge about a lot of topics as opposed to advanced knowledge about a few topics. It has its pros and cons, and sometimes makes it difficult to make a choice when you know too much (decision paralysis).

I never considered PS seriously until I came to Korea, when you become an expat in a new culture, you're basically starting over again and making a new identity and life. Another personality tendency I have is being a social chameleon, it's a behavior pattern I've had since childhood. If you threw me in South Central LA, I'd convincingly look like I belong to a street gang, if you threw me in Wall Street, I'd quickly adopt the role as a banker - It also has its pros and cons. I'm wired to become a sponge, take in as much around me, figure out what is what, and reflect it back to become adapted to my environment. Although, I have a healthy self-esteem and confidence in my appearance, and other people tell me nice things about how I look, especially Koreans when I moved out here, something started to change as I was taking in this new environment. Like most young people in Gangnam, I started to mix in with the night crowd and gradually gravitated into one of a few "in crowds" in the scene (Djs, models, club owners, lawyers, doctors, professionals, actors, English teachers and everyday people barely getting by). From my earlier posts, I mentioned, it's a very image conscious and competitive scene, where many people peacock to the point of looking like a celebrity or model even if they are just an everyday person. Then I met my GF, who works as a model, and hanging out with her crowd of Seoul socialites, started to make me feel a need to adapt. In Korea, you're bombarded by appearance and beauty enhancement media everywhere even if you're a man, what's considered "gay" elsewhere is practically a norm here (just take a look at the duty-free cosmetics section when you arrive here - the men's section will be biggest in the world). I started looking at myself in a new critical way, and seeing how normalized cosmetic enhancement was here, I got curious, and my research tendency got activated.

That's when I started looking into getting a touch-up, even though my friends and GF were advising me not to. But after awhile, my lens changes, things calmed down, I had spent enough time in the scene, and started to see things for how they really are, and didn't want to go where I was going, so I would say my PS intentions have been put on pause until further notice. If I decide to do it, I'll be honest with myself and know why exactly I am doing it.

Since I learned a lot, grew to love my GF, who is one of a kind anomaly - she looks the part and plays in the scene, but unlike 99% of people in that crowd she has a super down-to-earth, simple, humble and befriending nature that makes her enjoy the good parts without absorbing the drama. She sees all people as people regardless of their status and appearance.

She's looking for a new career because the modeling thing was never really her thing, and having a decent living as a woman in Korea without a prestigious degree is tough, and that's how she fell into - to have an income. We both realized a lot of foreigners are kind of navigating in the dark about the Korean PS topic. And lets be honest, a forum about women's handbags is not exactly the best place to discuss it, so we talked and we both felt empathy about the issue because she saw my own struggle to grasp the topic with confidence, even though I'm living here. And we could only imagine the concern people coming here as tourists feel about taking such a big chance.

So now my research intentions have changed, and we're working to organize info much better, provide people coming here with accommodations (our own homes) and local no BS knowledge as a small start up project I want her to have ownership of and grow.

Gangnam is cool, young Korean people and their style are attractive and Seoul is a great place to experience - despite some insider comments from my part. My GF is well suited to take women out in the scene as a guide or Korean BFF-for-hire who can help people enjoy Gangnam like local without the drama.

As for my Asian-ness, and ability to give qualified opinions on Asian and Korean culture, I'll tell you this much:

- I've spent 10 years working for Asian American non-profit organizations on issues ranging from diaspora, racism, to social welfare, and a lot time, especially in Asian entertainment culture, so I have an intimate knowledge about many Asian cultures, especially their TV and film. Hmong, Indians, Pinoy all the way to Chaozhou people
- I spent time doing coursework at a Korean university
- I live, work, eat, sleep and play side-by-side with Koreans now

I'll keep everyone posted on are project, and feel free to PM or kakao me. I've already helped a few people while they were out here.

 

You're fine, nothing will happen. The most they will do is sink a Navy ship or bomb an outlying island where hardly any people live, and the South and US will send an angry warning, and then throw some food aid and money at the North to be quiet, and the cycle will repeat itself a year or 2 later.

 

Yes there's board certification for surgeons in Korea. You can ask the doctor if he is board certified and where, when you meet them. They won't lie. Jung from Shimmian when I last checked a year go is not board certified for example, and I don't think he needs to be. He's an ENT with 5K+ nose jobs.

I'll just leave you with a modified line of what Morpheus told Neo, "Unfortunately, no one can be told what Gangnam is. You have to see it for yourself."

 

Back in the day, I took a graduate course on Korean Pop Culture Phenomenon at Yonsei (yes it was a real class), and there were many viewpoints to why it's sweeping Asia. Although looks are not the only reason, it's what's getting them noticed. It's what puts them a notch above Japan and Chinese popular culture because lets face it, if Rain did not look like Rain he would not be Rain. Also, Korean TV dramas and pop music from an artistic standpoint is nothing new nor clever.

Korean pop culture icons from the 80's, 90's and present are anatomically a different breed of Korean. It's not just makeup and hairstyles that have changed. If you took James Dean and Marylin Monroe and transplanted them to the present they would still have a shot at stardom because the anatomical requirements of celebrity-hood have not changed so much in the West. If you took a star from Korea's 80's and put them in the present their chances would be slim without meeting the surgery bar today's Korean stars have set.

Although I hate Psy, I tip my hat because he practically gave the middle finger to all these KPOP stars who were trying to get by on sexy moves and looks to break it globally, but a fat middle aged man dancing on a fake horse stole their thunder. My prediction is that Koreans will have a cultural revolution and a lot of Kpop as we know it will fade, and only have its place with teenage girls, this will give rise to organic and natural talent. And the whole beauty esthetic may change as a consequence (Psy is already touting cosmetic products), who knows, smaller eyes and rounded faces, may come back, and the ID doctor will probably invent the O-line.

" I don't think one neighborhood represents all of Korea and its people."

Gangnam represents 90% of the nation's wealth. If a nuke hit Gangnam, Korea as we know it would be over. And the 1 Billion plus views of Gangnam Style now have made that neighborhood represent the nation to the average lamen. One year ago, if you asked an American housewife what do you know about Korea? She might not have an answer or might say something from another culture like Sushi, or even say something about North Korea. If you ask her now, she might say "Gang - Nam Style"

 

You're pretty much going to have the same diagnosis from other doctor's except some will not feel comfortable using septal cartilage, they might use your ear cartilage. Ear is commonly used for the tip.

The two chin methods have their pros and cons. The second method "advancement by osetootmy" is known as a sliding genioplasty. Your chin bone is cut and then slid forward by a few mm and then secured in place with a titanium bracket and screws.

YouTube it to see what that entails. If you can PM a side profile photo with your mouth naturally closed I can tell you from my experience what might work.

 

Getting stares is not as bad as 6 years ago, but people look out of curiosity, they're used to seeing everyone that looks like them, so when someone doesn't it catches their eye. I even stare at foreigners because it's not a common sight.

 

I would say Seoul is an exciting place to live, but if you are an impressionable person, which admittedly I am, you have to develop an emotional and mental anchor somewhere in the middle of many extremes because unlike most places the current is much stronger here, and you can get swept away. And that's saying a lot, especially since I grew up in North Hollywood.

Surprisingly her eyes don't look bad in terms of swelling post-opp. This is 4 hours post opp and it took only 15 minutes for the procedure.

 

Many of these celebs, specifically the females who are up and coming, need to have "sponsorship," which is a Konglish industry term for a rich well-connected sugar daddy. The women need to provide sexual favors to the sponsor in exchange to be cast in a TV/Movie role and also have money for their upkeep (surgeries, clothing, cosmetics, hair, apartment, food, photos, etc...) Eventually, all that soul-selling catches up with them, and some of them develop personality disorders that lead to very dark extracurricular activities and some breakdown and commit suicide.

"Jang Ja Yeon... she wrote pages about sexual abuse by her for the sake of getting the role. In her writings, Ja Yeon has also written more than 20 big names in entertainment and media officials ever to harass or physically treated them shamefully." - The 5 Beautiful Korean Actress Dead By Suicide

The KPOP effect is no joke. It's backed by the Korean government and they provide large amounts of government funding and loans to these companies to generate new stars and content. Why? since K-drama and Kpop have a seductive allure and the Korean government sees it as one of the most effective propaganda tools to promote a favorable image of Korea to the world and other Asian neighbors. As ridiculous as that sounds, it works - because it brings in tens of thousands of tourists, medical tourists and drives a favorable image of Koreans in countries of concern like China and Japan (they're winning hearts and minds of the people like Mao did)... who see this on their TV set and think, "I want to look like them too, they're better than me," and the hypnotic story lines make people think that by mirroring them, they can have that persons life. The Korean KPOP wave also gets Korea's foot in the door of oil-rich countries because Korean broadcast companies provide these show to middle eastern networks and Arab housewives of powerful men eat it up, by the way East Asian medical tourists are a maturing market, the next target market is Arabic women in 5 months time, you'll notice a new language being offered on clinic websites.

All these girls you see walking around Gangnam with stylish bags, clothes and perfect noses, breasts, chins and eyes are a by product of KPOP and are mostly mirroring it and Gangnam culture reinforces and rewards this behavior with validation through envy and admiration. Now since many of them don't have sponsors like the celebs I mentioned earlier, and usually are not working beyond secretarial roles (average $1,000 per month) they take a "special night job" and skimp on living essentials to keep up the look. When you walk in Gangnam you will see plenty of fliers on the floor describing what I mean by "special night job."

 

Yeah, I was actually a little upset about her being so nonchalant, when she knows I actively research these things and take precautions, but a lot of Koreans have hurry hurry, just do it attitude about these things, which doesn't mean it's right. One of her friends is coming into town on Monday and renting my place for vline at Regen, she's going to meet the doc and book the surgery the next day.

 

True, but PSY completely flip flopped once the cash flowed in and he got elevated to national hero status. He quickly changed his intentions for the song as fun song with no particular point.

Gangnam is like Las Vegas, when you see it for the first time you're bedazzled and allured, but after a year it becomes a circus full of clones, and one big facade. Looks good on the outside, behind the scenes and on the inside that's another story that people passing by don't see.

 

Sometimes you need up to 3 fat grafts to get the result to stay. Did the clinic freeze your fat for touch ups?

 

MY GF and her friend just randomly got their eyes done yesterday (revisional). It turned out pretty good, I'll check the name of the clinics they went to. The doc was their friend, and has known them for years, so he gave them a fat discount.

 

I think the focus is on Korean plastic surgery, which is abnormal from a global socioecomomic stand point in terms of numbers, ethics and motives, and KPOP is one of the driving forces. Koreans have a lot of newly invented cultural norms that seem pretty strange and paradoxical to other developed nations.

 

For your nose, all them will offer a similar game plan, but the actual execution will vary. The tricky part is your chin. All of the doctors above will have a different approach based on their skills and experience. You may be a better fit for a genioplasty, but some of these docs may be uncomfortable doing it and recommend an implant or others may not like implants, and recommend fat graft depends on how much augmentation you need. Sometimes, "I don't recommend that" can be Doctor speak for "I'm not comfortable doing that procedure or don't know how, even though it might be better" that's why second opinions are good to get a balanced view.

Also from what I noticed, Korean chin implant shapes and sizes are more befitting to achieve a more effeminate Korean look, and you may need a shape and size to suit western aesthetics that is not in their stock. Assuming that's what you're going for.

Typically after 2 weeks, you'll be 100% presentable. You'll be able to walk around just fine after the procedure, but will feel woozy from the after effects of anesthesia for a day.

You probably need the hotel for at least a week after surgery up to 10 days for stitches, bandages and splints to be removed at a follow up appointment. After that you could fly back and recover from home.

2 weeks before your procedure stop alcohol and recommend at least a month of non-smoking before and after, if you smoke. Avoid aspirin or any medications 2 weeks prior.

 

Were you able to fill out the forms and input text with those browsers?

 

I'm no doctor, but the crease could be a result of the following:

It sounds from your prior posting you did a chin reduction which may have previously been stretching down your soft tissue. Reducing the bone that is no longer stretching down your chin pad may have resulted in the fold.

Also the mentalis muscle may have not been reattached to the bone at an optimal position and may be causing your lower lip to play a role in the fold.

Proper diagnosis is needed from a real doctor, but from my own guess it could be resolved by one or a combination of these options from the top of my head

- reattachment of the mentalis (possibly permanent fix)
- injection fillers (1 to two years)
- fat graft (possibly permanent or long term)
- aloderm implant (permanent)*
- silicone rubber (Permalip) implants. (permanent)*

*the implant will be small material about the size of the cleft or fold. A small incision on one end of the fold would be made and the custom cut implant would slide under the skin filling in the fold.

This Dr is an expert in labiomental folds: http://www.eppleyplasticsurgery.com/

I would contact him and explain exactly what kind of procedure you had done and send before and after pics at front, side and 45 degree angle with before and after xrays if you have them.

Contact the clinic and get it spelled out in medical terms what was done, in milimeters, what was cut and how was it moved, etc... Doctors in the west don't know what V-line means. It's a marketing term in Korea that the ID doctor coined. I think the doctor above would be able to explain what your options are.

 

Well I'm assuming the 11,000 was for rib or an implant to build a bridge? Usually a Caucasian nose for a primary rhino does not require building a nasal bridge, if anything they have plenty of septal cartilage so it should not cost 11,000, an asian nose on the other hand that wants a bridge requires more work, especially if rib is chosen, and thus costs more.

 

If you are Caucasian I would recommend Shimmian - Dr Jung it will be around 4500 to 4800 USD and worth checking out Dr. Lee at VIP it's around the similar price as well.

 

The Korean web is not friendly to many web browsers expect internet explorer.

 

Mentally Preparing Yourself

1) Do not rush your decision because of timing and vacations days, etc...

2) Do not trust B&A pics 100%. Use them as a guideline, these pictures are carefully chosen, and often the gap between the pictures is 3-6 months even a year or more. Don't think you will look great right away some of course are an exception to this.

3) Take a break from thinking, talking and researching surgery (1 month) and then come back to it. Distract yourself with other things.

4) If you are bringing in photos of KPOP idols and Korean celebrities and expect to look like them that's not a good sign. You need to have reasonable expectations.

5) Be aware of your own preconceived notions, expectations and bias you may have of your own self image and the result you are expecting. If you are so fixated on a certain look it may not be realistic or even if you look better, but not how you imagined you may cause yourself some stress.

6) Ask yourself how you rate your current self-confidence in your appearance. If you feel have a lot of negative self-dialogue and beat yourself up a lot. You should consider working on your self-esteem first. Your whole opinion about surgery might change.

7) What are goals and reasons for surgery? Really have a no BS self dialogue about this and write it out. If your reason is to look hot and have people envy you, then maybe you need to reevaluate, and ask yourself if that's the right state of mind or intention to have. If it's because you truly feel your physical aesthetics are not normal, effect the quality of your life because others make you aware of this, and you simply want to fall within normal to good aesthetic proportions then that may be more reasonable.

8) Don't be too positive with wishful thinking, so that you drop your guard.

9) Don't get swept up in what Koreans are doing. KPOP and all these Gangnam princesses are seducing Asia and Asians abroad. A lot of their beauty features are not ethnically Korean nor naturally achieved. Their images, mannerisms, dance moves, photos, etc.. are all carefully choreographed to seduce. They'be been through years of training and sponsored surgeries acting out a perfected formula of what grabs people's attention.

It can seduce you into wanting to mirror their behavior and put a false idea in your head that somehow these people are better off and you want the kind of admiration they receive. I live in the circus that is Gangnam, and have seen what happens behind the scenes - I can tell you that a lot of these people are not normal, most are textbook narcissists (filling a deep emptiness with envy and admiration from others), or are victims of being seduced to follow and mirror narcissists. A lot of aspects in the Korean psyche enable unhealthy levels of look-ism and vanity to persist to a high degree, but this makes sense in Korea and is befitting to current Korean popular culture, but not else where (except Hollywood and Brazil). Since Koreans follow the crowd, it's easy to normalize KPOP behavior that would normally be shocking in your home country. If you ask most most people outside of Korea what they they think about V-Line surgery, etc... they might be shocked at how invasive it is, and the lengths and relatively ease Koreans go about surgery, it's becoming as nonchalant as a haircut. But it's not a haircut! It's surgery and this is absolutely 100% serious and should not be taken lightly, and is something you only want to do once.

10) When you finish surgery. Don't freak out. Realize that you just traumatized your skin, tissue, muscles, nerves and bone. Your body needs to heal, deswell and normalize. it takes time, also realize you have looked at the same face in the mirror for years, when you change something and your mind is not adjusted to it yet, you may scrutinize it to a high degree, and over analyze things that are not noticeable to others, so be flexible

 

Hi onlyif,

The labiomental fold and re-suspension of the mentalis muscle was one my biggest concerns about genioplasty. I did a lot of research on this. I bought and read several journals on genioplasty, and and consulted with pro doctors in the US who specifically understand the nuances and variables of bone and soft tissue augmentation of the chin. I then talked to a variety of Korean doctors who all had different opinions I learned a lot from this journal as well.

Aesthetic refinements in genioplasty: the role of the labiomental fold. by Dr. H. Rosen

It's really hard to judge your case because I'm not looking at any before and after photos, so I was wondering if you can answer the following:

What was the purpose of the genioplasty?

- Prior to surgery - From the front view was your chin too short or long vertically? From the side profile view was it receded back or protruding forward horizontally? or a combination vertical and horizontal concerns?

- Do you have an overbite or under bite - Do know the class your overbite such as a "Class II"

- Prior to your surgery from the side profile view was your lower lip slightly behind your upper lip or in alignment.

The 3 cm description you provided doesn't sound like a labiomental fold, but possibly postis from your mentalis muscle retachment (this can be corrected). If you truly have a deepened labiomental fold the typical causes can be the following

First, it's normal to have a labiomental fold, but it should not be a deep fold, meaning from the side profile, the folds angle should be somewhat obtuse; 90 degrees or more, if it's acute and sharp angled then there were probably some miscalculations by the doctor not anticipating the changes in soft tissue morphology.

Possible causes:

Scenario 1: If your chin was vertically and horizontally short before surgery and...

- You had a class II overbite
- Your chin was also receded back
- Your lower lip was slightly behind upper lip.
- You already had a labiomental fold, but it was not as deep

If you fit the above scenario moving your chin forward without also lengthening it will deepen the fold.

Scnenario II: If your chin was vertically too long prior to surgery

Then you may have had a relatively flat fold before surgery, but since the bone was reduced it produced a fold because its not stretching the soft tissue as it was before. Think of holding a piece of string from two ends and stretching it, it will be flat, now bring the two ends close together, and a fold will start to appear.

Also the mentalis muscle may not have been reattached optimally effecting lower lip moment and fold as well, but changes in lower lip are to be expected with genioplasty.

If anything, you need to give it some time since you are still healing and your muscle needs to get used to their new position. After 10-12 weeks you should have a better idea of the long-term results. If you're not happy with the results then consider a revision.

If you get a revision go to a very good maxillofacial surgeon who has experience with revisions since they specifically deal with these matters.

Nose Scar

if you had an open procedure, a scar under your columella (the wall that divides your nostrils) is to be expected and will fade with time, but rarely go away 100%. I'm assuming this is what you are talking about (again pic would help) Also your post opp, condition and state of your body before and after surgery play a significant role (smoking, alcohol, diet, physical health, etc...)


Korean Jack of All Trades Doctors

- Not sure if this was the case at Grand, but in my opinion you should not rely on one doctor to do so many diverse areas.

I think hospital's like Regen and ID have a good practice of having subject matter experts and specialist doctors only operate on these area, so if you're doing nose, chin and eyes, you'll have 3 doctors working on you. Doctors can't be a master of everything, and you don't want to be someone's test subject. Another good example of specialists are Dr. Han at FacialHan who only does jaw, chin & dental related surgeries. he's meticulous and well studied. EverM also only does these procedures as well. Dr. Jung at Shimmian only does noses and he can do chin implants, but i would just go to him for nose only. Lee at VIP does multiple areas, but he has a high reputation and specialty in noses.

Give it some time, it might not be as bad as you think, and overtime your scar will fade and your mental image of yourself will align with your physical as well, and you may like the new look. Sometimes people are distressed because their own bias of how they thought or expected to look, when in the eyes of strangers you look fine. Of course other people you know will notice your face is different - you just had 3 operations done and are only a month out of surgery, so just relax and take it easy.

 

Glad to hear you're doing well.

You definitely need to wait at least 3 months for the swelling to go down to make any judgments