Two Jaw Surgery analysis and clinic reviews

[girugamesh]

Hi everyone. I have been planning on getting mandible and maxilla jaw surgery for over ten years now, and I finally have the time and money to do this. I am also going to get rhinoplasty, but that will have to wait until after the jaw surgery.

A little background on me, I am a research engineer and I often do surgery on mice for cell cultures which requires that I have a better understanding of surgery and science in general than your average person. That being said, I have spent a tremendous amount of time researching the doctors, clinics, and the science/publications. I was hoping my insight could be useful for others.

I have consulted with a few American doctors, including Deschamps-Braly. I was also in Korea about a month ago, and I consulted at Banobagi, ID, MVP, Wonjin, DA, JK, and Opera. I personally had good experiences with Dr. Deschamps-Braly, ID, MVP, JK, and Opera, but I decided to move forward with ID for two jaw.

In the end, I was far more impressed with South Korea. If you are not from South Korea, you will not be prepared for the culture there. It is true, that literally every block in the Gangnam district is littered with plastic surgery clinics. You could spend weeks just going to different clinics. I also want to address a few things I've heard about Korea.

We've seen a lot of horror stories about botched results, deaths, doctor swapping etc. Not to justify it, but some of what we may be seeing might just be due to the sheer volume. You have an American doctor who maybe performs 2-3 jaw surgeries per year, vs. in South Korea a clinic may performs 100s or maybe even a 1000s of jaw surgeries a year. And from that you have a couple botched result or maybe out of 6 years you have 2-3 deaths. This is actually quite normal, and if you were to look at the percentage of botched results and deaths, it's likely to be the same in Korea as it is elsewhere in the world.

On that note, the sheer volume of surgeries in South Korea makes me believe that doctors there are just likely to have more experience. It's like any skill, the more you practice, the better you will be.

Here's a quick rundown of each consultation.

Deschamps-Braly:
He is located in a small office in San Francisco. He and his staff were very cordial and friendly. They seemed to air on the side of caution, and actually decided against me getting two jaw surgery. Deschamps-Braly sited the risk factors associated with double jaw surgery, and he didn't seem comfortable performing that procedure on me.

The quoted price for his other surgeries were quite expensive and are going to be a lot more expensive than what you find in South Korea. However, for what Deschamps-Braly does do, I would say he is a leading expert in the world (V-line, facial feminization etc.). I have read many of his publications, and he is a very solid doctor. You will have great results with him for the surgeries you do.

MVP:
MVP has a large beautiful office and the other patients I met in the waiting lobby looked like they had amazing results. Their English consultant is amazing, and their aftercare seems to be exceptional. Their prices are competitive compared to the US, but they will still be a bit more expensive than some other clinics in Korea. They informed me that they didn't do two jaw, so we consulted for other procedures.

The doctors I met seemed knowledgeable and they were definitely a clinic that airs more on the side of caution. That being said I have read that someone recently died here, which has made me a bit hesitant about my choices.

Banobagi:
My experience at Banobagi felt rushed. The clinic itself seemed a bit rundown but it was packed with people. I felt that the English consultant was a bit rude. The surgeon I met actually discouraged me from proceeding with two jaw because of the risks. I think at times this can be good, if you are unsure of a procedure, but I was pretty adamant about what I wanted, so this was unfortunate. The prices they quoted me for the other surgeries was on the expensive side.

ID:
ID Hospital is definitely the largest clinic I went to. I think it was over ten stories. They seemed very busy, and I can understand why many people call it a "factory". I also thought it was strange that they did not perform a full CT scan of my jaw.

The English consultant was very friendly. I met with a couple of different surgeons, and I was very impressed with Dr. Hyon Wok Sok. It probably helped that he spoke English very well, but I could tell immediately that he understood the underlying problems with my jaw, which to me indicated a very good attention to detail.

I have read a lot of bad things about this clinic, but the doctor himself is really what sold me. I have also read a few publications where he is second author to Dr. Sang Hoon Park (the leading Dr. at ID) and he has been doing this for a very, very long time.

Wonjin:
Wonjin clinic was an average clinic in terms of appearance. They also no longer did two jaw so we consulted for other surgeries. The English consultant wasn't very good and I had mixed feelings on the doctors. The noses they showed me during consultation weren't really what I was looking for, so I decided to go with a different clinic.

DA:
DA Clinic was very nice and the English consultant was also very friendly. They didn't perform two jaw surgery so we consulted for other surgeries. Their prices were very competitive and the pictures they showed me seemed very good. This was the last clinic I had seen before returning home, and I had become pretty experienced at that point. Some of the doctors mentioned having to use ear cartilage in my rhinoplasty which i thought was strange. A few other doctors mentioned a silicone implant, and because I have a western nose, having to use ear cartilage is usually not needed because we have more bone. For these reasons I chose not to go with DA.

JK:
JK Clinic is an excellent and professional clinic. Of all the clinics I felt that overall, the doctors were safest and most experienced here. They performed a full CT scan of my jaw, and recommended braces before jaw surgery, and ample recovery time. I only decided against JK because of costs and time reasons, but I will go into more detail on that below.

Opera:
Opera clinic was also very nice. The English consultant was very friendly and the Dr. I consulted with was excellent. They do not do two jaw so we consulted for other surgeries. You also can't beat their prices. By far the cheapest of all the clinics I consulted at. The doctor seemed extremely knowledgeable about the surgical techniques. They also were very modernized in their approaches.

Why I chose ID Hospital
After doing a lot of research, their approaches seemed most modern and efficient. Surgery first orthognathic approach is slowly being adopted by the masses of doctors, but in this publication here: https://e-aaps.org/journal/view.php?number=261

ID hospital was first reporting about it eight years ago. The advantages to this is that you don't have to be in braces for a year+ before getting your surgery. Also I have read some papers which state this method can actually lead to better results. In addition, the recovery time they quoted me was only 2-weeks, because their techniques are more modern, surgery time is much faster. All this being said, I want to emphasize some things you should consider before getting two jaw yourself.


What is two jaw?
Two jaw requires moving the upper maxilla and the lower mandible. You can move the jaw in an X and Y plane, which corresponds to horizontal and vertical movement. Understand what movement you want. If you can tell the surgeon this, your results will likely be more in line with what you want. Try to figure out the exact displacement amount you will be getting (how many mm will you be moving your jaw in the x and y plane).

Don't forget about the occlusal plane. This refers to the actual angle of the jaw.

Ex.
http://www.scielo.br/img/revistas/dpjo/v17n4/a28fig6.jpg
http://www.scielo.br/img/revistas/dpjo/v17n4/a28fig7.jpg

Find out what kind of surgery you will be getting SSRO vs. IVRO (this refers to the type of cut performed).

There are also three ways to fix the jaw post surgery (of which I am aware): wire the jaw shut, place rubber bands, or use bolts and pins to screw the jaw in place. NO SURGEON should be wiring your jaw. Ideally, find a surgeon using screws and plates, as this is the most modern method. Then consider whether you want to use absorbable or nonabsorbable plates. The advantage of the absorbable plates is that eventually you have no foreign matter in your jaw, however papers I have read show that there is a higher incidence of complications with absorable plates.

What are the risks?
Refer to this paper:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5342970/#B3

FINALLY,
do not base your decision on mine, go to Korea and talk to the doctors yourself first. Every person has different requirements for their surgery, and I think it is important to get a personal vibe of the clinic. These are serious surgeries, and saving some money and time is not worth potential lifelong disfiguration and health problems.

 

[nrvm]

girugamesh said: ↑

Hi everyone. I have been planning on getting mandible and maxilla jaw surgery for over ten years now, and I finally have the time and money to do this. I am also going to get rhinoplasty, but that will have to wait until after the jaw surgery.

A little background on me, I am a research engineer and I often do surgery on mice for cell cultures which requires that I have a better understanding of surgery and science in general than your average person. That being said, I have spent a tremendous amount of time researching the doctors, clinics, and the science/publications. I was hoping my insight could be useful for others.

I have consulted with a few American doctors, including Deschamps-Braly. I was also in Korea about a month ago, and I consulted at Banobagi, ID, MVP, Wonjin, DA, JK, and Opera. I personally had good experiences with Dr. Deschamps-Braly, ID, MVP, JK, and Opera, but I decided to move forward with ID for two jaw.

In the end, I was far more impressed with South Korea. If you are not from South Korea, you will not be prepared for the culture there. It is true, that literally every block in the Gangnam district is littered with plastic surgery clinics. You could spend weeks just going to different clinics. I also want to address a few things I've heard about Korea.

We've seen a lot of horror stories about botched results, deaths, doctor swapping etc. Not to justify it, but some of what we may be seeing might just be due to the sheer volume. You have an American doctor who maybe performs 2-3 jaw surgeries per year, vs. in South Korea a clinic may performs 100s or maybe even a 1000s of jaw surgeries a year. And from that you have a couple botched result or maybe out of 6 years you have 2-3 deaths. This is actually quite normal, and if you were to look at the percentage of botched results and deaths, it's likely to be the same in Korea as it is elsewhere in the world.

On that note, the sheer volume of surgeries in South Korea makes me believe that doctors there are just likely to have more experience. It's like any skill, the more you practice, the better you will be.

Here's a quick rundown of each consultation.

Deschamps-Braly:
He is located in a small office in San Francisco. He and his staff were very cordial and friendly. They seemed to air on the side of caution, and actually decided against me getting two jaw surgery. Deschamps-Braly sited the risk factors associated with double jaw surgery, and he didn't seem comfortable performing that procedure on me.

The quoted price for his other surgeries were quite expensive and are going to be a lot more expensive than what you find in South Korea. However, for what Deschamps-Braly does do, I would say he is a leading expert in the world (V-line, facial feminization etc.). I have read many of his publications, and he is a very solid doctor. You will have great results with him for the surgeries you do.

MVP:
MVP has a large beautiful office and the other patients I met in the waiting lobby looked like they had amazing results. Their English consultant is amazing, and their aftercare seems to be exceptional. Their prices are competitive compared to the US, but they will still be a bit more expensive than some other clinics in Korea. They informed me that they didn't do two jaw, so we consulted for other procedures.

The doctors I met seemed knowledgeable and they were definitely a clinic that airs more on the side of caution. That being said I have read that someone recently died here, which has made me a bit hesitant about my choices.

Banobagi:
My experience at Banobagi felt rushed. The clinic itself seemed a bit rundown but it was packed with people. I felt that the English consultant was a bit rude. The surgeon I met actually discouraged me from proceeding with two jaw because of the risks. I think at times this can be good, if you are unsure of a procedure, but I was pretty adamant about what I wanted, so this was unfortunate. The prices they quoted me for the other surgeries was on the expensive side.

ID:
ID Hospital is definitely the largest clinic I went to. I think it was over ten stories. They seemed very busy, and I can understand why many people call it a "factory". I also thought it was strange that they did not perform a full CT scan of my jaw.

The English consultant was very friendly. I met with a couple of different surgeons, and I was very impressed with Dr. Hyon Wok Sok. It probably helped that he spoke English very well, but I could tell immediately that he understood the underlying problems with my jaw, which to me indicated a very good attention to detail.

I have read a lot of bad things about this clinic, but the doctor himself is really what sold me. I have also read a few publications where he is second author to Dr. Sang Hoon Park (the leading Dr. at ID) and he has been doing this for a very, very long time.

Wonjin:
Wonjin clinic was an average clinic in terms of appearance. They also no longer did two jaw so we consulted for other surgeries. The English consultant wasn't very good and I had mixed feelings on the doctors. The noses they showed me during consultation weren't really what I was looking for, so I decided to go with a different clinic.

DA:
DA Clinic was very nice and the English consultant was also very friendly. They didn't perform two jaw surgery so we consulted for other surgeries. Their prices were very competitive and the pictures they showed me seemed very good. This was the last clinic I had seen before returning home, and I had become pretty experienced at that point. Some of the doctors mentioned having to use ear cartilage in my rhinoplasty which i thought was strange. A few other doctors mentioned a silicone implant, and because I have a western nose, having to use ear cartilage is usually not needed because we have more bone. For these reasons I chose not to go with DA.

JK:
JK Clinic is an excellent and professional clinic. Of all the clinics I felt that overall, the doctors were safest and most experienced here. They performed a full CT scan of my jaw, and recommended braces before jaw surgery, and ample recovery time. I only decided against JK because of costs and time reasons, but I will go into more detail on that below.

Opera:
Opera clinic was also very nice. The English consultant was very friendly and the Dr. I consulted with was excellent. They do not do two jaw so we consulted for other surgeries. You also can't beat their prices. By far the cheapest of all the clinics I consulted at. The doctor seemed extremely knowledgeable about the surgical techniques. They also were very modernized in their approaches.

Why I chose ID Hospital
After doing a lot of research, their approaches seemed most modern and efficient. Surgery first orthognathic approach is slowly being adopted by the masses of doctors, but in this publication here: https://e-aaps.org/journal/view.php?number=261

ID hospital was first reporting about it eight years ago. The advantages to this is that you don't have to be in braces for a year+ before getting your surgery. Also I have read some papers which state this method can actually lead to better results. In addition, the recovery time they quoted me was only 2-weeks, because their techniques are more modern, surgery time is much faster. All this being said, I want to emphasize some things you should consider before getting two jaw yourself.


What is two jaw?
Two jaw requires moving the upper maxilla and the lower mandible. You can move the jaw in an X and Y plane, which corresponds to horizontal and vertical movement. Understand what movement you want. If you can tell the surgeon this, your results will likely be more in line with what you want. Try to figure out the exact displacement amount you will be getting (how many mm will you be moving your jaw in the x and y plane).

Don't forget about the occlusal plane. This refers to the actual angle of the jaw.

Ex.
http://www.scielo.br/img/revistas/dpjo/v17n4/a28fig6.jpg
http://www.scielo.br/img/revistas/dpjo/v17n4/a28fig7.jpg

Find out what kind of surgery you will be getting SSRO vs. IVRO (this refers to the type of cut performed).

There are also three ways to fix the jaw post surgery (of which I am aware): wire the jaw shut, place rubber bands, or use bolts and pins to screw the jaw in place. NO SURGEON should be wiring your jaw. Ideally, find a surgeon using screws and plates, as this is the most modern method. Then consider whether you want to use absorbable or nonabsorbable plates. The advantage of the absorbable plates is that eventually you have no foreign matter in your jaw, however papers I have read show that there is a higher incidence of complications with absorable plates.

What are the risks?
Refer to this paper:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5342970/#B3

FINALLY,
do not base your decision on mine, go to Korea and talk to the doctors yourself first. Every person has different requirements for their surgery, and I think it is important to get a personal vibe of the clinic. These are serious surgeries, and saving some money and time is not worth potential lifelong disfiguration and health problems.

Click to expand...

Hi! I would like to know what type of surgery did you have? Because I would like to have a surgery for maxillar and jaw advancement (bimaxillary advancement osteotomy) but I don't know if it's a good idea to do it in Korea because I think the majority of people have bimaxillary orthognathic surgery but for retrognathia because they have a protruded mouth and I have the opposite problem.

 

[luvpenpenny]

Thank you for sharing and good luck with the surgery.

 

[mj19]

I recently went to DA plastic surgery for facial contouring surgery consultation.
Hansuk Lee was the manager who looked after me on that day.
Initially when I had the consultation, she said that the 100 000KRW consultation fee would be included in the final payment. This is usually how things are done in most plastic surgeries.
After I did the CT scans, and spoke to Dr Sangwoo Lee regarding the operation, the manager took me to a separate room and she told me the price for the operation which was 1 million KRW.
I thought that since the CT scan consultation fee was included in the final price that the amount I had outstanding to pay was 1mil-100 000KRW= 9,900,000KRW.
However, she took my credit card and without consulting myself or confirming the price on the atm machine, she paid 1mil KRW and signed the transaction without my signature or approval.
When I asked her about this price discrepancy, she said I had misunderstood and that she never said that the initial consultation fee was included in the total price. Rather she said that I was getting a lot of discounts anyway so I shouldn't complain. ?!?!?!
She said instead they will pay for my medications and add extra sessions for my swelling reduction laser sessions.
I was so flabbergasted that they could outright lie like that to my face and turn it around saying it was my misunderstanding. I may not have the best Korean, but I know what I understand and what I don't.
I have had lots of experiences in Korea where you get conned of your money through various marketing strategies.
Personally, I am just down right sick of the lack of moral scruples in this country. No wonder Korea is not considered a 1st world country.
Especially from a large established practice as DA, that's really disappointing. They really should treat their overseas customers better if they want more referrals in the future.
For those looking into plastic surgery in Korea, just beware that you can get seriously ripped off of your money. Don't do it, it's really not worth it.