asian nose job 2

[candyshop]

Megalife said: ↑

They've never replied my email lol i sent one a month ago.. did u send it to xxx ?

Click to expand...

yes thats the email I sent it to

 

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Part 1

Hello everyone !

So, here we go, I'm going to write that review. I was going to be lazy and not write it but then, some persons sent me private messages, so I thought I'd may as well share all the information I gathered in Korea, on this forum.

So, to start from the beginning (sorry, I'll repeat few things I've already said).

I/ The reason I chose rib cartilage :

I had a rib cartilage rhinoplasty at VIP clinic in the beginning of June 2011. I chose this material because I thought that was the state-of-the-art material for rib cartilage rhinoplasty as Dr Toriumi, listed as one of the best 5 rhinoplasty surgeons in the world by a health magazine, used it on Asian patients. Then, I discovered that he botched few patients and sort of use them as guinea pigs for his new researches. So, I decided that the surgeon was not a good choice, but rib cartilage was still the way to go. I thought it would give more room for the surgeon to do all his art as he'll have enough material to work with and won't be limited. Also, I only wanted to use my own tissues, I do not want to take the risk to have my body rejecting a foreign body.
So, I read all the pages of the two thread on the Purse forum (Asian nose job and the Asian nose job 2 thread).

 

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Part 2

II/ The reason why I went to VIP clinic :

I thought about Dr Jung at the beginning and then, I decided to go to Dr Lee. The reason I chose him was because I chose to go for rib cartilage and that he seemed to be the only doctor in Korea who did 100% rib noses and that he was the one who seemed to be the most specialized in it. I still believe this is the case.

III/The reason why I eliminated Dr Jung :

I eliminated him from my choices because he lied to one patient : Townstory, he said to her that she would have goretex (or something like that) and he has put in her donated rib cartilage (radiated rib, initially from cadavers). The second reason was that he would have Chinese doctors watching the operation and he would not tell the patient in advance that several people would be watching the operation (that was probably the reason why he used donated rib on Townstory -to show ho to put it in a patient-). I find it not very ethical knowing that surgeons offer free surgeries when they have to use the patient as a "demonstration" patient. I have heard that Dr Lee takes 3 days per year to make these kind of demonstrations and I am not that the patients pay. I heard that from another VIP patient during my first trip to Korea.
Nevertheless, ethical issues aside. I still believe that Dr Jung is a very skilled doctor and can make beautiful noses. I wanted to go to him for the removal of all rib grafts because he has a lot of experience in rhinoplasties as he mainly does that (unlike Dr Lee who does everything as he's the only doctor in VIP with Dr Song- his assistant-, even though it seems that Dr Lee has a passion in rhinoplasties-).
I have been impressed by his reconstruction rhinoplasties, he even managed to make a nice nose out of a nose with necrosis (dying tissue). Also, he has studied art at university (his undergraduate degree I think), so he must have a certain sense of aesthetic that he probably uses when he does noses.
I was a bit scared of some asymmetric nostrils I saw on his blog nose.co.kr, but I think it is because he did a closed rhinoplasty on these patients.

I have asymmetric nostrils because I previously had two closed rhinoplasties using the same side and that side had some scarring that makes my nostrils look asymmetric.

Thinking back I think it would have been a good choice to be moderate and go to Dr Jung and ask for a rhinoplasty with ear and septal cartilage, as I initially wanted to do in March 2011, before I read the Asian nose job 2 thread in which rib cartilage was the praised material.
But I was scared to have a high and straight bridge and some patients have complained about it with Dr Jung. Also, when I emailed Jay Lee (Dr Jung's assistant), I sent him pictures of Song Hye Kyo and I regretted it because Jay Lee had given me the impression that because of my email, it was all set, that I wanted a high, straight and sharp nose because of the picture of Song Hye Kyo I've sent.
Anyway, I did not have to worry, because with the online consultations, it is very different from the real consultation. Sometimes, it seems that the managers don't even talk about your case with the doctors but answer them for you. But on the other hand you sometimes have the feeling that what you've said on the email is the only consultation you had and then, they rush you when you actually see the doctor.

 

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Part 3

IV/ The online consultation and the actual consultation (my VIP experience):

A/ The online consultation
I have to admit that I sent a lot of emails, mainly pictures. I sent around 11 emails at once and then, stop sending emails (because of exams and because I did not want to bother her) until I went to Korea (I just sent 2 or 3 to schedule the surgery). Nevertheless, receiving 11 emails at once sort of scared Joann. In 4 emails, there were thumbnails of my old nose. In fact, because it was an online consultation, I thought I'd send pictures of my nose in every angle. In one other email, a summary of what I wanted to change, in another email a pdf document containing pictures of noses I do not like, in another a pdf document of pictures of noses I liked.
Anyway, if it was the consultation, I thought I'd better share what I had in mind in detailed manner. It was a mistake because I realized that the only message that went through was "she has too high expectations". But, it was not the case, as I only wanted to get rid of my bulbous tip and have more projection to it. Nevetherless, my communication was not efficient. I have corrected that in my second consultation when I had my rib cartilage removal.
Anyway, to go back to the online consultation, Joann said to me, after I sent all my emails that I had worked hours on, to simplify them : "Can I just delete all your emails ?" So, I realized my work was not simplified enough and all it did was confusing the clinic, as I thought the emails were seen by both her and the doctor. I did not regret anything, because I thought it was better to express what I had in my mind concerning the nose rather than keeping it to myself.
In fact, the clinic receives the email, if it is in English, Joann reads it. Then, she just answers it. If there's a particular question, she cannot answer she will ask the doctor. I guess it works well as the doctor is very busy. In my mind, I had the wrong impression that the online consultation was answered by the doctor himself. For Dr Paik (101 clinic) and Dr Suh (JW clinic), I think they answer the email themselves (unless the question is administrative, eg: price).

 

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Part 4

B/ The actual consultation
So, when I arrived, I sort of felt rushed because, anyway, I already had the online consultation. The patient before me (McDreamy) was also rushed, as Joann came to me and said "Sorry, this consultation is taking a little longer than expected." When I entered, it was like a race in my head, I wanted to mention, in as little time as possible everything that was important to me, illustrating my words with pictures. I showed pictures of Park Shi Yeon's nose explaining which features of her nose I liked. Dr Lee was turned off a bit because I was actually showing a picture of a different person saying what I liked about this nose. I thought it was possible to have a nose with similar features because Joann said "it is possible to give you the desired nose" by email and I thought Dr Lee said it. Also, on the phone, she was sometimes saying "Dr Lee, come here, this patient has a question, is it possible to give her nostrils like that ?" and then, she'd tell me on the phone, "Yes, Dr Lee is saying it is possible". Thinking back, I wonder if she actually asked him the questions as I never saw Dr Lee around the reception especially at the times I called (one time around 9:00AM -I was surprised there was someone before 10-, another time around 4:00PM, Korean time).
To go back to the actual consultation, Dr Lee was watching me showing him a picture of that Korean actress and told me "your nose is completely different, tell me what you want". I expected this kind of reaction, as I know showing pictures of celebrities may give the impression that I have unrealistic expectations, so I showed hi my powerpoint number 2, explaining the exact same 8 points, but instead of using the pictures of Park Shi Yeon's as an illustration, I used his before and after pictures from VIP clinic's website. The 8 points (in random order) were : 1/ round nostrils, 2/ elongated nostrils (to correct the retruded columella), 3/ projected tip, 4/correcting flaring nostrils, 5/ curved bridge 6/defined tip (get rid of the bulbous tip) 7/ soft tip (not as hard as bone) 8/make the middle third appear shorter (I thought this one was impossible, as the space between the radix and the subnasale cannot be shortened, but Joann on the phone said it was possible to do so, and I thought to myself "wow, this surgeon must be genius if he can do something that I have no idea how this can be done". Of course, that cannot be done, because an upturned nose will always look like a long nose, if the middle third is long, it is just the skull size and cannot be shortened unlike in jaw surgeries. I think that was the main failure of my rhinoplasty at VIP, and the fact that rib cartilage is extremely uncomfortable and that the huge nose did not fit my face's proportions (and not because of my mandible and zygoma reduction that occurred after, the nose was just too big).
When I went through the powerpoint, there was just two pictures and a title of 5 words per page. I did not manage to go through the 8 points, I only did 5 points and the consultation ended. But I sort of had the feeling that anyway, we sort of talked about the other points even though I did not show the other pages. I only sent powerpoint n°1(with Park Shi Yeon as an illustration) to Joann by email, powerpoint n°2 (with VIP before and after pictures as an illustration) was not given to them. Apparently, Dr Lee looked at my powerpoint n°1 during my surgery. In fact, we did not mention certain points, like the height of the bridge that, as I said in a previous post, we only mentionned as I was walking in the surgery room.
During my consultation, I had the impression that Dr Lee did not know what I wanted, so I have impression that Joann was the only interlocutor I had during my online consultation. McDreamy also had this impression, that Dr Lee discovered his case at the consultation.
So, to summarize, the online consultation is nothing like the actual consultation itself. For those who just arrived on this page of the thread (by googling), if you click on my nickname, look at my previous posts and you'll see more details about my experience at VIP.

 

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Part 4

B/ The actual consultation
So, when I arrived, I sort of felt rushed because, anyway, I already had the online consultation. The patient before me (McDreamy) was also rushed, as Joann came to me and said "Sorry, this consultation is taking a little longer than expected." When I entered, it was like a race in my head, I wanted to mention, in as little time as possible everything that was important to me, illustrating my words with pictures. I showed pictures of Park Shi Yeon's nose explaining which features of her nose I liked. Dr Lee was turned off a bit because I was actually showing a picture of a different person saying what I liked about this nose. I thought it was possible to have a nose with similar features because Joann said "it is possible to give you the desired nose" by email and I thought Dr Lee said it. Also, on the phone, she was sometimes saying "Dr Lee, come here, this patient has a question, is it possible to give her nostrils like that ?" and then, she'd tell me on the phone, "Yes, Dr Lee is saying it is possible". Thinking back, I wonder if she actually asked him the questions as I never saw Dr Lee around the reception especially at the times I called (one time around 9:00AM -I was surprised there was someone before 10-, another time around 4:00PM, Korean time).
To go back to the actual consultation, Dr Lee was watching me showing him a picture of that Korean actress and told me "your nose is completely different, tell me what you want". I expected this kind of reaction, as I know showing pictures of celebrities may give the impression that I have unrealistic expectations, so I showed hi my powerpoint number 2, explaining the exact same 8 points, but instead of using the pictures of Park Shi Yeon's as an illustration, I used his before and after pictures from VIP clinic's website. The 8 points (in random order) were : 1/ round nostrils, 2/ elongated nostrils (to correct the retruded columella), 3/ projected tip, 4/correcting flaring nostrils, 5/ curved bridge 6/defined tip (get rid of the bulbous tip) 7/ soft tip (not as hard as bone) 8/make the middle third appear shorter (I thought this one was impossible, as the space between the radix and the subnasale cannot be shortened, but Joann on the phone said it was possible to do so, and I thought to myself "wow, this surgeon must be genius if he can do something that I have no idea how this can be done". Of course, that cannot be done, because an upturned nose will always look like a long nose, if the middle third is long, it is just the skull size and cannot be shortened unlike in jaw surgeries. I think that was the main failure of my rhinoplasty at VIP, and the fact that rib cartilage is extremely uncomfortable and that the huge nose did not fit my face's proportions (and not because of my mandible and zygoma reduction that occurred after, the nose was just too big).
When I went through the powerpoint, there was just two pictures and a title of 5 words per page. I did not manage to go through the 8 points, I only did 5 points and the consultation ended. But I sort of had the feeling that anyway, we sort of talked about the other points even though I did not show the other pages. I only sent powerpoint n°1(with Park Shi Yeon as an illustration) to Joann by email, powerpoint n°2 (with VIP before and after pictures as an illustration) was not given to them. Apparently, Dr Lee looked at my powerpoint n°1 during my surgery. In fact, we did not mention certain points, like the height of the bridge that, as I said in a previous post, we only mentionned as I was walking in the surgery room.
During my consultation, I had the impression that Dr Lee did not know what I wanted, so I have impression that Joann was the only interlocutor I had during my online consultation. McDreamy also had this impression, that Dr Lee discovered his case at the consultation.
So, to summarize, the online consultation is nothing like the actual consultation itself. For those who just arrived on this page of the thread (by googling), if you click on my nickname, look at my previous posts and you'll see more details about my experience at VIP.

 

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Part 5

V/My rib cartilage experience :
A/ The time while at VIP clinic (my first Korea trip):

After the surgery, I looked at my nose covered by the cast and I was delighted that the nasolabial angle seemed to be obtuse like I wanted and that my tip was projected. I was over the moon and kept on thanking Dr Lee. Joann came to me and said my case was very difficult and that he made the best nose. I said thank you. She said that because I had made clear particular points about my nose, s it made the case difficult. But later, I had the impression that they had a tendency to say to several patients "your nose is VERY difficult". So, well, I don't know. I previously never had an open rhinoplasty and I still had my ear and septal cartilage, so my case was not as bad as if I have had open rhinoplasties before.
So, I was over the moon, I was reading this forum and thinking that I had the exact same nose that I asked for. I wanted to share my experience and praised Dr Lee and thanked the clinic on the forum. Nevertheless, I still had my cast on. Then, I had the cast removed, but my nose was still covered with tapes. I could only see my nostrils. They were still asymmetric, but I thought it was due to the fact that Dr Lee had to remove scar tissue on one side (due to close rhinoplasty on the same side twice) and therefore, that explained the asymmetric swelling. My nostrils are still asymmetric as of now, as the second surgeon did not touch my nostrils, but I still have hope that it is the swelling and that they will become asymmetric.
So, I saw that my nostrils were rounded at the upper part of the nostrils if we look at my nose from the bottom (by upper part, I mean the part that is the furthest from my face). I saw the obtuse naso labial angle (upturned nose) and the tip projection. I was delighted. I remember Dr Song showed me the nose without tape 3 days after the surgery when he did the dressing. I was horrified as what I saw was ugly, but I was sure it was the swelling, and there was a lot. Dr Song said the result was very good and in terms of what they wanted to achieve, it was indeed a successful surgery. The nose in itself was what we could call a "masterpiece". I had my mandibular and zygoma reduction at Smallface clinic. So, the tapes were not removed until the 21st of July (I think I said around the 19th of July in a previous post but it was closer to the 21). so, the tapes were removed and I did not have much swelling compared to other patients. The nose in itself was a nice "masterpiece". Everyone said the nose looked good, especially from the profile, and specially in comparison to all other noses (some called their swollen nose "sausages"). Joann asked me how I did it, to have such a reduced swelling. I mainly said it was due to pumpkin soup and juices. I was excited. I was very ugly, but I showed off with my nose. I thought the nose looks good, it's only that the rest of my face is like a patato because of my facial contour surgery. As I said in a previous post, I had a plastic nose on a face, giving me the impression that I was like Mister Patato in Toy Story. I was still in the euphoria and my main focus was to get the surgeries that I couldn't get done in Europe, at least not as that price and not as quick as they do it in Korea. so, I was going from clinics to clinics having liposuction consultations. To simplify things, I decided to just do my arms and upper and lower leg liposuction at VIP clinic. Nevertheless, I did not have a consultation with Dr Lee, I paid for the liposuction and then when Dr Lee marked me, he refused to do liposuction on my lower legs. I was confused because I paid USD1500 especially for the lower legs and I realized it was a mistake to have a consultation with Joann only and pay without having seen Dr Lee. Because I paid for that part and because they were not going to give me the money back even though Dr Lee said I should not do it, when I said that I paid in the surgery room to Joann, Dr Lee said "okay, I'll do it". But, I think I already talked about this liposuction experience in a previous post.
Anyway, to go back to the nose. I was excited and didn't get too worried until 2 or 3 days before my departure, I talked to other patients who were unsatisfied of their noses. There was a another girl who said to me "the bridge is too high, I specifically mentioned to Dr Lee that I wanted a low radix", I said "Are you sure, you asked for a low radix ? Because in my case, it was rather unclear", she answered "I especially asked for a low radix and made it clear" (I don't remember the exact wording, but that's what she said to me). Then, she said "and the tip has not changed that much, it is the same as before, except maybe that the nostrils are worst (-by worst, it is operated looking-). I thought her nose was fine, but when we haven't seen the patients before, we cannot really tell if they have become prettier or uglier. When I was looking at the nose only. The nose looked good, but whether it fitted her face, that I couldn't tell, as I didn't see her before. So, I said her nose was fine. Like others said my nose was fine. Then, I said, I also think, when I look at the mirror, I look okay if I hide my bridge from the front view. She said "same for me, when I hide the bridge, it looks okay." Then, I covered her bridge and looked at her overall face without thinking she'd look much different, but in fact, she did look much better, because by hiding the bridge, my attention was drawn to her eyes and mouth. by uncovering the bridge, all I could see was her big nose with eyes and mouth appearing small. I personally think that girls with a small nose and big eyes and lips are the most attractive. So, I started to freak out. Yes, the bridge was indeed a mistake, I should not have it on my nose. All, I started to think about was whether Joann would accept that I have my bridge shaved down, like Dr Lee has done to an unsatisfied male patient few days after his tapes were off. She said "tastes are different", "do you know how much antibiotics he had to have in perfusion in order not to have an infection?" (but she sort of realized that, that wasn't my main concern as I was under antibiotic my entire 21 days in Korea), then she said" in one year, I should still be there by then, so don't worry I'll do something for you". I wanted to ask if I could have the bridge shaved before September but she said, no it has to be a year for the swelling to go down, or at least 6 months, because after 3 months that's when the tip area becomes less hard (meaning not hard as a rock).
So, that's how I left Korea. With an ugly face, but thinking it was just the swelling.
(By the way, one or two days before my departure, a Korean taxi driver asked me if I was from India, that never happened to me before).

 

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Part 6

B/ Living with my nose back in my home country:
When I was in the airplane to Europe, persons talked to me in a rude way (unlike before). The taxi driver asked me if I was Indian. I thought, yeah, it's alright, I'm ugly, because I don't have any make up. Nevertheless, I realized that when I smiled, people's face were even more disgusted. So, I was starting to talk with my hand in front my mouth. Then, in front of my nose and my mouth. I thought, as soon as I'll put make up, I'll look more presentable. I looked at my face at the mirror and tried to make something nice with make up. It was impossible, even though I thought I was not pretty before without make, at least I could make a beautiful face after make up. Now, it was impossible, because when I applied make up the bridge was still to high and no matter how much foundation I'd put, there was still like a wooden trunk coming out from the middle of my eyebrows leaving a deep shadow on each sides of my bridge; giving the impression that I did not sleep for several days. Then, I tried to apply lipstick to draw the attention on my lips that were pretty, but it was impossible to draw the attention on them as the nose was so huge, it is the ony thing we could focus on, my mouth was so retruded compared to the nose that it gave the impression that my mouth became 2mm smaller in size from every corner. Then, no matter how I would apply the make up, my "handicapped" looking smile did not make me pretty. Also, my eyes were pulled towards the middle because the high bridge was taking a lot of skin, 4mm in each side, so 8mm in total. I did not realize that the bridge deformed my eyes, as if I had a bigger epicanthoplasty, because I had the surgeries to close together so I thought it was my eyelid surgery that made that epicanthoplasty look. I had a magic epi, but natural looking, as I could tell when my bridge was removed and 8mm of skin fell back in my eyes, giving me an Asian look again, less Indian.
Every day when I woke up, I could feel my nose like a heavy piece of wood, and my skin being pulled. I ran into the mirror as soon as I got out of bed and looked at my nose. I was reassured that in the morning when I woke, because of the swelling the sides of my bridge did not appear as sharp and there was less shadow. I thought it was going to get better. Then, in the afternoon, the sharp bridge was coming back again and I was desperate again. I tried to focus on the stuffs I needed to do (I had appointments) and people seemed not that enthusiastic about talking to me (unlike when I used to look good). I saw one person who saw me before, I said "My apologize for the way, I look, I haven't slept for 30 hours". I thought that could be a good excuse for the way I looked. I flew 26 hours because I had a stop in Dubai (8 hours flight, 8 hours stop, 10 hours flight from Dubai to Seoul). She said "yeah, what happened to you, you need to sleep, you have become extremely skinny". My bridge was very sharp and the sides shadow were like dark circles. When I talked to people, I had to apologize for my smile and I said "don't worry, if I cannot smile properly, my middle face is paralyzed, I have some temporary difficulties in smiling properly." While in Korea, I never felt the need to apologize because I just thought it was normal, but being back in my country, people could tell there was something weird with my face. One time, I had to admit what I did, when someone said "did you have plastic surgery?" I said yes. Then, I showed my before picture and the person was literally shocked. He kept silent, and then said. "It's sad." I wanted to cry for the first time since my trip. I said "Yeah, I know." I looked like a pretty girl before and as I was talking to him, I had an ugly, deformed face that couldn't even smile without expressing pain. I did not feel pain, but the struggle in smiling widely was noticeable. I said "It's okay, it's reversible." He said "you didn't need plastic surgery, I'm sorry about what I am about to say, but now, you might need plastic surgery, to go back to your previous stage." He didn't seem to believe that I could get my previous nose back. I said "I know I need to have a surgery to remove that." When I came back to my home (where I was sleeping), I looked at my face for hours in the mirror, trying to get used to my face and trying to imagine how it would be like when my nose would shrink like other forumers have said (Hher or BBgurly) but I did not believe that it would go down to 4mm, my smile was too deformed to just be a side effect of the surgery. I could not understand why Dr Lee would not have warned me about the smile. So, I kept on repeating to myself that they probably didn't warn use because it is temporary. But the smile was too different. I looked at the mirror and talked as I used to talk, made facial expressions, made a cute face; and all I saw was a face struggling to make facial expressions that I used to constantly do before and people would say that I was cute and expressive. Then, I've hidden my nose and saw the rest of my face's skin moving but the skin on the nose was completely immobile and super pulled, almost shiny. I remembered Joann asked me if my skin was extensible before the surgery, but I thought she asked that for my columella's extension.
So, I made facial expressions hiding my nose, and it kind of looked okay, except for the smile that changed to uglier/older looking. Then, I would remove my hand from the nose, and saw the nose completely immobile. I was not sure about removing the rib cartilage because I had spent so much time, money and damaged my health to have this rib in my nose. I thought I could not take an early decision and at least try to enjoy or see the benefits of that rib cartilage nose. So, I just went on the forum, wrote few posts asking about the recovery, searched on Google, if my smile change was due to the paranasal implants. I sort of recognized from Realself patients that I have met during my trip in Korea. I think Bisousx and McDreamy have asked questions to Dr Lam or Realself doctors. they had the exact same issues as me, at least for certain points. I knew that the person who had the bridge shaved few days after the tapes were off would do some research or contact doctors to have everything removed, so I was in contact with him. I also started sending emails to surgeons in Korea. The surgeons were not surprised at all that I wanted the removal of the rib cartilage, as if it was regularly asked. The more I was sending emails, the more I reminded to myself that clinics don't really pay attention to online consultation, and it is all different once we send them our airplane ticket showing that we are determined to come to Korea or once we are in Korea consulting them in real person. So, after few answers saying that the removal of some of the rib cartilage grafts was possible, I started looking for air fares to go back to Korea and for accommodations. I thought, the earlier I leave the sooner I'll be back to see my parents, who were waiting for me and who would have been shocked or sad if they saw me with the rib cartilage nose. I did not want them to see that.
So, there we go, I flew to Korea in order to have the rib grafts removed.

 

[angleplane]

Part 6

B/ Living with my nose back in my home country:
When I was in the airplane to Europe, persons talked to me in a rude way (unlike before). The taxi driver asked me if I was Indian. I thought, yeah, it's alright, I'm ugly, because I don't have any make up. Nevertheless, I realized that when I smiled, people's face were even more disgusted. So, I was starting to talk with my hand in front my mouth. Then, in front of my nose and my mouth. I thought, as soon as I'll put make up, I'll look more presentable. I looked at my face at the mirror and tried to make something nice with make up. It was impossible, even though I thought I was not pretty before without make, at least I could make a beautiful face after make up. Now, it was impossible, because when I applied make up the bridge was still to high and no matter how much foundation I'd put, there was still like a wooden trunk coming out from the middle of my eyebrows leaving a deep shadow on each sides of my bridge; giving the impression that I did not sleep for several days. Then, I tried to apply lipstick to draw the attention on my lips that were pretty, but it was impossible to draw the attention on them as the nose was so huge, it is the ony thing we could focus on, my mouth was so retruded compared to the nose that it gave the impression that my mouth became 2mm smaller in size from every corner. Then, no matter how I would apply the make up, my "handicapped" looking smile did not make me pretty. Also, my eyes were pulled towards the middle because the high bridge was taking a lot of skin, 4mm in each side, so 8mm in total. I did not realize that the bridge deformed my eyes, as if I had a bigger epicanthoplasty, because I had the surgeries to close together so I thought it was my eyelid surgery that made that epicanthoplasty look. I had a magic epi, but natural looking, as I could tell when my bridge was removed and 8mm of skin fell back in my eyes, giving me an Asian look again, less Indian.
Every day when I woke up, I could feel my nose like a heavy piece of wood, and my skin being pulled. I ran into the mirror as soon as I got out of bed and looked at my nose. I was reassured that in the morning when I woke, because of the swelling the sides of my bridge did not appear as sharp and there was less shadow. I thought it was going to get better. Then, in the afternoon, the sharp bridge was coming back again and I was desperate again. I tried to focus on the stuffs I needed to do (I had appointments) and people seemed not that enthusiastic about talking to me (unlike when I used to look good). I saw one person who saw me before, I said "My apologize for the way, I look, I haven't slept for 30 hours". I thought that could be a good excuse for the way I looked. I flew 26 hours because I had a stop in Dubai (8 hours flight, 8 hours stop, 10 hours flight from Dubai to Seoul). She said "yeah, what happened to you, you need to sleep, you have become extremely skinny". My bridge was very sharp and the sides shadow were like dark circles. When I talked to people, I had to apologize for my smile and I said "don't worry, if I cannot smile properly, my middle face is paralyzed, I have some temporary difficulties in smiling properly." While in Korea, I never felt the need to apologize because I just thought it was normal, but being back in my country, people could tell there was something weird with my face. One time, I had to admit what I did, when someone said "did you have plastic surgery?" I said yes. Then, I showed my before picture and the person was literally shocked. He kept silent, and then said. "It's sad." I wanted to cry for the first time since my trip. I said "Yeah, I know." I looked like a pretty girl before and as I was talking to him, I had an ugly, deformed face that couldn't even smile without expressing pain. I did not feel pain, but the struggle in smiling widely was noticeable. I said "It's okay, it's reversible." He said "you didn't need plastic surgery, I'm sorry about what I am about to say, but now, you might need plastic surgery, to go back to your previous stage." He didn't seem to believe that I could get my previous nose back. I said "I know I need to have a surgery to remove that." When I came back to my home (where I was sleeping), I looked at my face for hours in the mirror, trying to get used to my face and trying to imagine how it would be like when my nose would shrink like other forumers have said (Hher or BBgurly) but I did not believe that it would go down to 4mm, my smile was too deformed to just be a side effect of the surgery. I could not understand why Dr Lee would not have warned me about the smile. So, I kept on repeating to myself that they probably didn't warn use because it is temporary. But the smile was too different. I looked at the mirror and talked as I used to talk, made facial expressions, made a cute face; and all I saw was a face struggling to make facial expressions that I used to constantly do before and people would say that I was cute and expressive. Then, I've hidden my nose and saw the rest of my face's skin moving but the skin on the nose was completely immobile and super pulled, almost shiny. I remembered Joann asked me if my skin was extensible before the surgery, but I thought she asked that for my columella's extension.
So, I made facial expressions hiding my nose, and it kind of looked okay, except for the smile that changed to uglier/older looking. Then, I would remove my hand from the nose, and saw the nose completely immobile. I was not sure about removing the rib cartilage because I had spent so much time, money and damaged my health to have this rib in my nose. I thought I could not take an early decision and at least try to enjoy or see the benefits of that rib cartilage nose. So, I just went on the forum, wrote few posts asking about the recovery, searched on Google, if my smile change was due to the paranasal implants. I sort of recognized from Realself patients that I have met during my trip in Korea. I think Bisousx and McDreamy have asked questions to Dr Lam or Realself doctors. they had the exact same issues as me, at least for certain points. I knew that the person who had the bridge shaved few days after the tapes were off would do some research or contact doctors to have everything removed, so I was in contact with him. I also started sending emails to surgeons in Korea. The surgeons were not surprised at all that I wanted the removal of the rib cartilage, as if it was regularly asked. The more I was sending emails, the more I reminded to myself that clinics don't really pay attention to online consultation, and it is all different once we send them our airplane ticket showing that we are determined to come to Korea or once we are in Korea consulting them in real person. So, after few answers saying that the removal of some of the rib cartilage grafts was possible, I started looking for air fares to go back to Korea and for accommodations. I thought, the earlier I leave the sooner I'll be back to see my parents, who were waiting for me and who would have been shocked or sad if they saw me with the rib cartilage nose. I did not want them to see that.
So, there we go, I flew to Korea in order to have the rib grafts removed.

 

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Part 7

VI/ About the "masterpiece nose"

A/ The nose out of context :

In fact, Dr Lee seem to have a passion in rhinoplasties. He does like what he does. Nevertheless, it seems that he has focused on making a beautiful structure but forgot about the patient's rest of the face and the patient's comfort.
Using rib cartilage, he will have a lot of material to create the "masterpiece". If the beautiful nose doesn't fit your face, it doesn't matter, because the problem is not the nose, it is your entire face. Indeed, to accessorize or to fit your new nose, you need to change the rest of your face, you need forehead fat graft, chin genioplasty or chin fat graft. Then, you end up being able to take a beautiful profile picture, but your front view becomes "stronger" (Korean call stronger, features that are not soft and feminine), more caucasian and male looking. Not to mention that the fat graft is USD1500 per area and around USD5000 for the genioplasty, but this you might not even notice, because as they say "it is easy" and "Dr Lee will see during the surgery what needs to be done". Personally, I think it is a bit worrying not to know what will be done while the surgeon's inspiration is at work and also, not knowing the price (just thousands of dollars difference) is also something that is important to know before you undergo a procedure, but they make it sound as it is just easy. Otherwise, Joann may say "You don't trust Dr Lee". As she has said to me several times. I was just being firm on what I wanted not to have done. She seemed to have been offended when I refused the fat grafts and the sandwich genioplasty (putting mandibular bone in between my cut chin to make it even larger - longer vertically and pushed forward-). Also, everytime, I justified myself to her saying why I did not wanted to change my chin mainly explaining what Dr Lee Seung Chan from Smallface clinic has said -speciliazed in facial contouring- (thinking back, I don't even think I had to justify why I did not do the procedure), she would get angry and say "you don't trust Dr Lee" "oh, so the doctor from the other clinic is saying small is good, so you think everything small is good". I just wanted to say that my small chin was feminine (it is not retruded, just slightly like some Asian, and it looks good) according to Dr Lee Seung Chan and he said I would regret it if I touched it.
But with the sentence "You don't trust Dr Lee". I did not like her saying that, because I already gave all my trust to him by giving him my nose for the operation and the least I wanted her to say to him was that I did not trust him. First of all, I trusted him to give him a large amount of money, my rib and my nose; and he would make me feel guilty, so I'd undergo other procedures to prove that I have a total faith in him, which I think I already showed. At the end of my trip, I almost thought of doing the genioplasty, because I thought she might be right.I'm glad I didn't do it.

 

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Part 8

B/ You're unsatisfied, the problem is you :

Joann has a tendency to say to patients who are worried or on the verge of being unsatisfied :
- "you know other patients have done a lot of research and they prepare themselves"
-"people just don't walk in in our clinic, they contact us prior to their arrival" (I rea dthat on Cozycot forum, I posted it on our forum, but did not take into account her experience as she only had a consultation, during which VIP clinic staff told her she should change everything, thinking back that should have made think more, I was too narrow minded thinking that VIP was the only right clinic and that others just didn't do enough research -eg: reading the 200 + pages of the Asian nose job 2 thread-) Also, I stupidly thought that paying more would mean better quality.
-"you are the only one like that, most of the patients are happy with their new nose"
-"it is just the swelling of the other surgeries -fat grafts fro example- that makes your nose look like that" (when patients complain of having a sausage instead of a nose)
-"you have to wait, be patient, it will go down, with rib cartilage it takes longer for the swelling to go down"
-"with rib, there is a tendency for the bridge to de-swell faster and the swelling remains a little longer on the tip"
-"with time, your tip will become less stiff"
-"the other clinics don't know about rib cartilage"
Whereas some of the above information may have some truth in it. I think :
-she tends to make you feel guilty, the problem is not the rib nose, but it's you, you are not patient enough.
-and it is simply not true : other surgeons told me the smile would not go back after up to a year even after the septi nasi muscle is repaired. the nose will remain stiff and the tip remains bulbous (even though it can de-swell) especially if it is bulbous after 2 months.
Also, even though Dr Lee is a skilled doctors, others are also very good. Others operate on celebrities and are professor at the university.
By the way, I heard that celebrities have been to Dream, April31, 101, but during my entire experience (and the place where I spent most of my time for the first trip), I have never heard that Dr Lee did any celebrity's nose job. Maybe he did, but I have never heard of it.
Also, Joann make it sounds that only VIP clinic is a safe place, the best. But it is very safe in other clinics too and many patients had a fever after the rhinoplasty (I had a slight fever) and UTI infection after the rhinoplasty at VIP. So, I don't see how it is better than elsewhere (except tiny clinics, or clinics in small streets).
When I asked about the mandibular surgery on the phone she said "but what counts the most is your safety, above the procedure." As if I took the risk to die if I went to other clinics, more than in VIP. Thinking back, she made every patient believe that VIP was the only safe and quality place whereas other clinics were more risky and doctors less skilled because they don't use rib cartilage.
Also, in other clinics like Dream, Banobagi, April31, 101, JW etc. where they have a doctor specialized in each procedure, so the doctor would do only noses, only facial contours, only eyes. Unlike Dr Lee who does everything at VIP except eyes. Dr Song does the eyes and helps in other procedures, he assists Dr Lee. I wanted someone who did rhinoplasties only, and I don't how in reading this forum, I ended up in the hands of a surgeons that does a bit of everything. I think at some points, and by reading this forum, I started being too optimistic.

 

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Part 9

C/ Going back to VIP after all the rib cartilage was removed :

I went there because I wanted to have the high frequency treatment that follows the liposuction. I did not want to talk about the nose as I had almost everything removed and I did not want to offend Dr Lee who had put effort into it. But on the other hand I paid for it, so he shouldn't feel too sad that the "masterpiece" has been undone. So, Joann talked to me and said :
_"You should have waited honey, it would have gone down."
I said:_ "but the other surgeons said it would not have gone down".
_"You need to give it some time, it would have gone down."
_"I don't think it would have gone down by 4mm, like my natural nose, which I think is already too high".
_Taking the receptionist as an impartial observer (as she could be) :-"See she does not listen to me." The receptionist shaking her head approving "Yes, yes, she is not listening to you".
-Me : "I'm just saying that I don't think in a few months it could not have gone down as much as what I would have liked."
_"See, she doesn't listen"
_I answered "I listen to you" and waited to hear what she felt I did not listen to. Anyway, at that point, I had the impression, she was just putting a tag on me "she just not listens". So, I repeated her words "if I waited a few months, it would have gone down, my decision was taken too early" so, she would not tag me as the one who just doesn't listen.
-She said : "I know you don't like me."
I answered "It is not true." But anyway, how should that affect anything, because I came to Korea for a rhinoplasty, not to get along with the sales manager of the clinic I've chosen.
Anyway, she said the other surgeons didn't know about rib, and that they did a revision too early (indeed it was early, but they first firmly refused and then accepted to help me so I wouldn't have to live like that for 6 months. Not being treated well by people was starting to change my personality into a pessimist, hiding person) giving the impressions that other surgeons are just bad. But I said to her "Dr Lee is a good surgeon, but the others are also good surgeons". The other surgeons I consulted were professors at the university, so, they know about rib cartilage, they just chose not to use it for their patients.

She said "you think your nose is better now ? Your nostrils are asymmetric. " What she doesn't know is that the second surgeon has just removed the bridge and columella strut and rotated my tip downwards -called "derotation"- (leaving a naso labial still obtuse, after VIP it the naso labial angle was very obtuse), and he did not touch the nostrils because he wanted to touch as little as possible as I was 2 months post op. My nostrils were still asymmetric but less than after VIP as the rib bridge was pulling the nostrils in an unnatural way. I showed her a picture of my VIP nose and I said "Yes, my nostrils are asymmetric but they are still better than on the picture."

She even managed to say that my eyes surgery was failed. A bit more, and she could have said something like "anyway, you're ugly", lol...but of course she did not say this. I remember from my first Korea trip that she told me : "Everyone can tell your eyes have been done and that you had your mandibular done (due to swelling), but no one can tell you had your nose done (as it was completely immobile and shiny, it was big but we couldn't tell if it was swelling) and you're only complaining about your nose." She said that when I said that I was afraid the bridge was too high.

By the way, you may think I am unlucky, but my eyes at Dr Kwon Teuimps turned out asymmetric, he said he would fix it in December because he also saw that there was an asymmetry (that he has done during the ptosis correction), but I had it fixed at the 2nd trip in Korea, and I seem to have some scarring. Joann said I did the right thing to fix my eyes though.
I showed her the picture of the rib bridge removed (4mm width and approximatively 6cm long) and the columella strut (around 2cm long and 2mm width, Y shape) and said "I don't think these pieces of rib cartilage would have gone down".
She said "Well, if the other surgeons are showing you pictures..." (thing that would not happen at VIP I believe).
I said, "But it's okay there's no problem, I did not come to talk bout this, I just came for the high frequency treatment." So, she stood up and we rushed to the elevator. She and the receptionist kept silent in the elevator, I sensed a bit of a cold atmosphere. I was at the reception desk and they told me to come back the next day at 3PM for the high frequency treatment. Then, I left.

 

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Part 11

VII/The online consultation and actual consultation with Dr Suh (JW clinic):

I asked him if he could remove all my rib cartilage 2 months after my surgery. He said it was very easy to remove the rib bridge and rib paranasal implant, but we did not talk about the columella strut, which removal is much more difficult as the structure can collapse. Then, I asked about the price, and I think I shifted to the English customers manager as the emails were not signed anymore and they didn't seem to be written by the doctor. They gave me range of price that was completely different after my actual consultation.
As during the consultation, I was very surprised that Dr Suh didn't seem to remember any of the email that he had answered 2 days ago. I don't even think he read the surgery report (that I scanned/took a picture of) or looked at the pictures.

 

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Part 12

VIII/ My experience from JW clinic (Dr Suh) consultation :

A/ The impression

First of all, it was not a good sign that he didn't seem to remember any of my requests sent 2 or 3 days before the consultation (I only sent 3 emails, not longer than 10 lines and pictures of my face before and after rib cartilage- front, profile right and left, 2/3-).
Also, he offered to operate me as soon as I landed after more than 15hours flight (much shorter journey than when I had a stop in Dubai, this time I had a stop in Frankfurt) with the jetlag. I thought they weren't caring much about my condition. They said they could operate on me the next morning. During the consultation, I was rushed, as if I could not talk to the doctor for a long time, even though, after he talked to another patient-who was already operated-, he seemed to have nothing to do and still he did not gave me the impression that I could talk to him. Also, I knew he had nothing to as he said he could operate me right after the consultation.

B/ The actual consultation

He is a person who seem to be a good listener. He asked me to draw what I meant by triangular nostrils and nostril show and then asked me to show which nostrils (from my drawings) I thought I had.
I talked to him about alar rim graft, but he didn't seem to know what I was talking about. I was surprised what that he didn't know because even my Indian doctor who's not used to Asian faces knew about the alar rim graft to give the impression that the nose wings are less flaring, to flatten the nose wings instead of having them with a rounded shape (I am not sure if I explain well), but anyway, if I explain it by showing pictures, it becomes obvious even for a non plastic surgeon, but he didn't seem to know what I was talking about.

C/ What Dr Suh said about my rib nose :

He said "This is the inconvenient of rib noses, they are very stiff and you have a bulbous tip." I answered "Yes, but the bulbous tip due to rib cartilage is just temporary according to what my previous surgeon said." He answered: "You're almost 2 months post op." Silence. I understood that if my nose was like that after two months, then, if it de-swells, it might not be very significant. My tip was very bulbous after the rib cartilage rhinoplasty.
He said he could remove the bridge and paranasal implant.
He said I would not recover my smile completely but after one year there would be an improvement. I told him that from the surgery report it says I had a septi nasi transposition and asked if it was reversible. He said "not entirely". I asked "has the muscle been cut or transposed?". He answered "Cut or transposed it's almost the same. Yes it has been cut." I am confused, I still don't know what is a transposition. If anyone on the forum can tell me, I'd be grateful to know what it exactly means.
My second surgeon-who removed my rib grafts- (that I will not name on the forum, I will explain why later) said that he had to sew the muscle back, so I wonder if the transposed septi nasi muscle has been cut to be sewed again. then, I also wonder if a cut muscle that is repaired can have all its function back ?
He was not very confident in helping me getting my smile back. From that consultation, it convinced me even more that I could not have had my smile back without the rib columella strut removal.

 

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Part 13

D/ The type of noses Dr Suh from JW clinic does :

1/ Tip work :
Have you ever seen Korean actress with a nice sharp nose, but you can tell it was an operated tip ? That's the kind of nose he gives I think. I'll post a picture of the pointy tip I'm talking about. Also, he gives a nose a bit like his own nose, sort of sharp tip with wide round alar rim that remain untouched.

2/ Rib cartilage for the tip:
He uses rib cartilage for more tip projection. That's actually exactly what I wanted to have, rib cartilage on the tip only, as I wanted a lot of tip projection. Nevertheless, with my rib cartilage experience and as I'll explain in a paragraph where I will talk about my rib removal experience. I think it would have not been a good choice to stick to a rib tip.

E/ Other patients from JW clinic I saw / talked to:
I saw a Vietnamese girl from Canada and she just had her nose done. Her bridge made of silicone was amazingly natural and very nice. Nevertheless, it was swollen as she just had her cast off, maybe it was going to be sharper like my own bridge in the afternoon. Her nose was swollen but her tip was very pointy and sharp compared to her alar rims (wings) that were super round. The difference was so obvious that I thought the surgery was a failure as her tip was too sharp compared to the round wings. Her friend told her, her nose looked better before. She was worried and went back to Dr Suh to say that her tip was too sharp but she came back from the consultation and said Dr Suh saw a nice result during the operation and that it would get better. So, I was a bit scared away because I would have had some tip work.
Deliriousgirl and jenstar11 had their rhinoplasty done at JW clinic. They said they felt the most comfortable with him and he seemed to be the one who understand their requests the most. I think jenstar11 is satisfied. Deliriousgirl used to have a natural 1mm goretex sheet that she liked and Dr Suh offered to do an osteotomy and putting a silicone (I think it was the material) and now she is unhappy about her bridge that is way to high, also she thinks he did not address her alar rim asymmetry even though he said he would.