juicyme Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 What i meant by my post is that i feel like if i go to vip and have a negative experiene, i woud be way too afraid to post it here and share my experience because i feel like that would only lead to people attacking me or questioning me. >___< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kain Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 there have been negative experiences posted here before. milkyway didnt like her nose and was panicking at 1 week post op, and there were others that i cant recall (there was a bunch of ppl who were recently post-op at the time). nobody attacked or questioned them. when jesse00 didnt like her nose nobody attacked her either. if you mean angleplane, only one person 'attacked' her. a number of patients who were at the clinic disagreed with parts of her story, but they werent attacking or questioning her. they were simply giving us their side of the story. if you mean jenstar, i am allowed to disagree with parts of her opinion if i want, especially when i see her using tactics, like putting words into people's mouths, or not supporting her claims (like implying that it was unethical to perform a lipo when she doesnt know why he said angleplane shouldnt do it. it would be unethical if it were for health reasons, but she doesnt know why he refused.) here is the implications of unethical practices:However, he agreed to do it once he discovered it had been proposed and payment was collected by Joann. That is a fact is it not? Don't you see that Dr. lee was unaware of this proposal and if it hadn't been for joann, Dr. lee would have not agreed to do the liposuction on angleplane. There could be various reasons beside finance that a doctor might refuse to do a procedure on a person. Ex. include possible health risks/complications, patient has had too many surgeries, patient doesn't need it, etc. if the patient doesnt need it aesthetically and yet opts for it, then i see no problem. and all we have to do is ask angleplane why dr lee refused (health problem or not?) and the only problem left is that joann proposed it without dr lee knowing. if she could support these claims, then i would agree with her completely. but i can only agree with parts of what she says because the other parts are remain unsupported i dont see why everyone says that people are being "attacked" so much without any supporting evidence. i'd like to see a list of ppl who have been "attacked" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilswtmoon Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 @ Kain: Hi Kain.After see your after pic, I must say that dr. Lee had done a master piece on u, n I love his work, I really do. Before rib cartilage is my #1 choice for my revision, cause I want it to b nature I were planning to make appointment in September. But after reading all the negative ab rib cartilage, I kind of scare. I did ask Joann, n she said the nose will soften in a year or so, of course it her job to said it, i dont blame her. Since ur the real patient , can u tell me that, is the nose really hard n stiff to the point that u can move it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kain Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 at ~4 months post-op, my nose (upper bridge, mid nose bridge, and the tip) feels as hard as the bone on my natural bridge. so yes it is stiff. i cannot move it up or down, and can only move it by a mm from side to side (it is secured by sutures so that the implant doesnt move) i doubt that it will become less stiff as time goes by. initially, my tip was softer than the bridge because i had ear cartilage in the tip, but it seems to have absorbed and/or compacted, so now my tip is as hard as my bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyjim Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Hi Kain, By "upper bridge", do you mean that area between your eyes that connects the forehead to the middle of the nose? Because that's the area that I need most work on (I have a low bridge/lack of a proper radix). Is it uncomfortable to have a hard bridge? Should an ideal nose's radix/beginning of nose bridge between the eyes be as hard as the middle section of the bridge (which is hard and solid for me)? Thanks Kain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juicyme Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 @Kain, okay, I understand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptansh Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 hey ladies, if you dun mind travelling to SouthEast Asia for the nose job at very reasonable rates. do explore the possibilities with Dr Nara from Thailand; google his name and you'll see his website and threads relating to his services etc in quite a no. of forums. good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilswtmoon Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 @ kain: thanks kain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angleplane Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 hi, I just read page 571, so I see that we're talking about my liposuction. The reason why he refused to do my lower legs was that they already looked thin/okay to him and he thought it was not worth it to do a liposuction there, for scarring reasons. But anyway, he did it when I told to Joann, who opened the surgery room door, that I paid USD1500 for that part. If she said "the doctor doesn't recommend that part, we'll give you the money back for that part", maybe it would have shown that they're not money driven. For my arms, upper thights (inner and outer) and lower legs, I had 600cc removed in total. As for not being attacked, Kain, I think it is great that all your posts seem rational, but put yourself in the shoes of people who posted not so praising comments about VIP and then, received the type of answers that I received right after my first negative post, I don't think you would have been encouraged to post anymore. By the way, I think all those who are just lurkers or just read the forum can tell that it is very uncomfortable for people to post anything negative about VIP, unlike when we post something positive about this clinic. Nevertheless, I understand that you feel like defending this clinic, as you sort of exposed yourself and people saying they're not good, may make you feel like it is also implying that your rhinoplasty result is not good either. I think you look great after the rhinoplasty, but personally, I know that you have a hard rock nose that is super stiff and I personally wouldn't want to live with it even if I was more handsome/pretty. I am flying back to Korea soon because I cannot stand having rib cartilage in my nose and I believe my smile will never be natural as long as I have these pieces of rib in my face. I still have 6 pieces of rib, I think only the 2 biggest one were removed (columella strut -2cm- and bridge -6cm-). By the way, everyone, including the livingtel owner in which I stayed (a Korean guy) said I looked much better after these two pieces of rib were removed and he knew nothing about plastic surgery (except some ads he saw in the subway but he didn't know about procedures). My face was so unnatural, but on pictures, it was difficult to tell unless I smiled. As for those, still interested in VIP, I think you either have too much money to spend (like I did), because they're way more expensive than market price (USD8500 instead of around USD5000 everywhere else for primary rib rhinoplasty) and the surgeon is not better. What you pay for is the after sale service by having the accommodation provided, 2 nights in the clinic and other customers talking about the healing process on this forum. Only a clinic that offers accommodation for foreigners has an interest in convincing patients before their arrival in Korea that they want to go to one specific clinic, because then, they can sort of lock them into having their surgery at their clinic because they benefited from the accommodation they provided since their arrival. There are genuine patients here, but I think this clinic has already managed to become the focus of this thread, otherwise who would go to a clinic that charges up to USD2500 or USD3000 more than the entire Korean market ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angleplane Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 All other clinics accept foreign patients and they treat you very well. They all treated me like a special patient (some even wanted to record my voice and say in English that I chose their clinic). The doctors speak a good English, even though it doesn't mean much to me, I think, when it comes to expressing what you want for your nose, it can be important sometimes to avoid miscommunication with the doctor. Dr Lee from VIP was one of the doctors who's English was less understandable (so I hope he understood me in return), but anyway, he tried, so I think he deserves to be respected for that. Maybe, he just relied too much on Joann, but I don't like to have an intermediary between the doctor and me. Smallface clinic paid a translator for me, who accompanied me to the hotel, bought groceries for me and stayed with me until I was under general anesthesia (even though the doctor spoke English better than her I thought) and when I woke up, she was there for me. They also pay 5 nights of hotel for you. You just have to walk in the clinics, no one will speak English (just like in VIP clinic) but then they will call the manager that speaks English (in VIP, they have Joann and sometimes one or two interns who speak English), in JW clinic there's one English speaking manager, same for April31, in 101, all the doctors have an excellent English (as if they studied in the US). I went to Anh plastic surgery to remove my freckles (they were all gone in 3 days, amazing, even though I had them for life, they became blood crusts and I could peel them off). This clinic was packed from 10AM until 7PM of around 13 patients waiting in the waiting room (Assai79 praised him in Soompi eyelid surgery forum) and his English is also excellent, as if he studied in the US too. It's at Sinsa station exit 1, you walk and look on the right hand side, you'll see the name of the clinic on a board (I always look up in the air to find the names of the clinics as they're always on the nth floor of a building). I found their contact : E-Mail address: pscliahn@hotmail.com. Internet: www.pscliahn.com The women at the reception don't speak English.http://www.soompi.com/forums/topic/68893-double-eyelid-surgery-thread/page__st__7060 At VIP, the sales manager speaks an excellent English, not the doctor, but what matters is how you communicate with the doctor, not through an intermediary, who's a salesperson on top of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindyeatsworld Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 hey guys ... soo its been 7 weeks since my surgery at VIP and i hate my nose right now T___T I wanted to make my nose smaller esp the tip. and i had alarplasty done as well which turned out pretty nice. but my nose tip is SOOO big T___T. I wanted a small and defined nose tip. and right now its so big and square, not to mention crooked to one side. some of my friends didnt notice but the ones who i told about they said it looks like a white persons now and that its really really big and they hope its just swelling. My nose tip before was bulbous but it wasnt that high. but now from the side its like twice as high holy......fml.. over the last 7 weeks i think it deswelled a little bit but not noticible at all... I know its swollen but if it deswells at this rate I'll still have a huge ass nose by the time I'm dead =.=; sigh apparently 80% of the swelling is supposed to be gone by two months? if this is 80% then gg... lol cause theres no difference. I don't know what to doooo T___T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azn_kid Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 angleplane: do you knw which clinic good for dark circle remove? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angleplane Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I read the post in page 519 that was translated from Naver. How can anyone doubt that the post of this Korean lady is not genuine ? I had almost the exact same experience as her with VIP clinic. They say the surgery is nothing when they aggressively change your face. When I went back to Europe, my tenant told me that now that I told him that I had a nose surgery, he had the impression that my nose was blue-ish, which I also noticed. I also had total faith in VIP clinic until I realized how my nose looked like. It was impossible for me to socialize as my nose was so big compared to the rest of my face. I also had no contact with Dr Lee since I left Korea (my first trip). When I went back there, I did not see him and anyway, Joann told me to not contact them by email, even though when I left I was in good terms with them, theoretically, I still should be, unless they read this forum (which is probably the case). I also, like her thought that paying USD9000 was a guarantee that my nose would be improved for the best, and it was not the case at all. Also, Dr Lee is the only one doctor (apart from Dr Song, his assistant) operating on patients. So, when he has 3 to 4 patients scheduled in one day, how can he spend 8 hours on a nose ? They say they spend a long time on noses, because patients love the idea that the doctor was a perfectionist, but it makes sense that he operates on several patients on the same time. There's only one doctor with his assistant, but there are 2 surgery rooms. Why ? If it isn't that at least two patients are sedated at the same time. Also, when I told the manager of another clinic that Dr Lee cannot be that bad because he spent up to 8 hours on some patients, he kept silent, and he said "You know, it's not good for the health of the patient to leave him a long time under sedation." Also, if the doctor is focused, a lot can be done in 2 or 3 hours. who can believe that a human being can stay focused for 8 hours straight, even eveyday ? When he's the only doctor in the clinic with his assistant. Also, like this Korean girl, the receptionists of VIP and Joann made me feel like it was me that was wrong if I wasn't satisfied with this big nose out of proportion with my face. They also would have made me wait for a year, if I couldn't afford to spend another 5 000 000 KW and go to other doctors to have my rib grafts removed. I'll also have to pay extra USD3000 for my second removal. And this girl is also saying the truth, when she says that Dr Lee destroys the entire structure to create one that is totally dependent on the rib grafts he puts. My septal cartilage was intact and now, with his work he made it impossible to stand by itself, and my nose will be destructed if I remove these hard piece of cartilage. but I can't live with this stiffness and one doctor told me he could remove the septal cartilage supports, I'm going to take the risk to have the entire structure of my nose collapse because I don't want to live with anything that was done on my nose by VIP clinic. It is true that no doctor would completely destroy a nose that is already good to make a brand new structure that is even very difficult to revise. She says she can mention at leas 10 friends who had the same negative experience, I already found a doctor that had at least 5 Korean (I don't think they were foreigners) unsatisfied patients from VIP, as the doctor showed me their before and after pic, to tell me that he could correct my nose but only if I waited a certain time. I don't understand those who just try to discredit the post of ExpatinKorea because she had only 5 posts. The post is genuine and she just copied, translated and pasted the experience, which is very similar to mine and I am a foreigner, from Europe, and I almost had the exact same experience as this Korean girl. VIP is money oriented and Joann has the ability to lie in the eyes like Christopher Rockefeller and even hold your hand even if she hates you. She's too money focused. Once, I remember I told her "Sometimes, I did not like my experience in this school in NYC because they were only after the money" and there was a big silence after, whereas I thought she would say something random to say that she saw what I meant, as anyone would have done. Anyway, I think it is not ethical at all to completely change the structure of one's nose when they even initially tell you, "you look good, you don't need plastic surgery". I'm worried that in my next trip in Korea, when all the rib grafts will be removed, that my nose will collapse after. It's also very expensive for me to fly back there for a third time. It's time, money, effort and most importantly emotionally consuming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angleplane Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Post on page 519 of this thread : "Quote: to those planning on rhinoplasty... it's so unfair... please read and help spread the word posted on June 15th, 2010. Hello cafe members "bow" ^^ With a natural, slight augmentation of my nose in mind, I had surgery on March of 2009 from *** plastic surgery clinic near the #3 exit at Ap-gu-jong. Please don't be fooled by the grand advertisements... The pictures are solely for the purpose of luring in customers. If you get fooled by these advertisements, like me, you'll cross a lake that you won't be able to return from... I was deceived by this clinic and ??? I spent almost 10,000,000 won and used a rib cartilage to undergo a major surgery and ruined my life with a single decision. With the large price tag came the guarantee that my nose will be safe until the day I die. At this clinic, they even used my septal cartilage to perform an aggressive and unconventional surgery. ??? There are at least 10 people that I know who had failed surgeries from this clinic. It's a sad reality that this doctor, without any conscience, uses hyped up advertisements and is still in business. Rib cartilage... when a person touches my nose tip, they are terrified at how hard it is. Before the surgery, they don't say a word about how hard your nose will become... At clinic X (i guess she consulted other clinics after her failed nose job), they tell me that if I bump my current nose, "snap!" it's going to break so I must be careful... Also, because the doctor (from ***) took out my nasal cartilage as well as the cartilage that maintains the nostrils, if i remove all the rib cartilage, my nose "will collapse" like boong-uh-ppang ( a flat korean pastry). And i heard this from a nurse after the surgery. Before the surgery, when I was already in my hospital gown, they said that they may or may not use a k-wire and vaguely handed me the consent form. At the end, they used a K-wire on me. As a former patient of this clinic, unlike what the clinic says, the surgery was a major one and due to its aggressive and unconventional nature, caused proportionally huge problems for me. Since the doctor alters the very foundation of the nose and I don't know if he is unable to do a revision but he finds blame in the patient and is very unreasonable ?? (when she asked for a revision, i think...). Doctors from other clinics refuse to do revision on this doctor's work and they advise that I go back constantly to the clinic and make sure that the structure of my nose remains stable throughout the years. Also, doctors from other clinics have told me that I could've gotten the projection I wanted without using rib cartilage. Surgery from this clinic is not easy but a revison is much much more difficult. The nose I had previously, with a foreign implant and ear cartilage, was more of a human nose, more aesthetically pleasing nose, and a safe nose. I was having a hard time after the surgery and all they tell me are excuses and I couldn't even post any complaints on the clinic's homepage. I tired to make an appointment at the clinic, but they won't schedule me one and they say they'll call me back but never do. I tried to go see the doctor but they give me excuses and prevent me from seeing him. Then several clinic staffs gang up on me and treat me like a mental patient, saying that I am hyper sensitive and overly stressed and make me out to be the strange one. The doctor nor the general manager is in sight and all the nurses can say is "I"m sorry". They contact the police and tell them the the doctor was assaulted by a woman and has bruises when he wasn't even hit. That's the kind of place this hospital is. When I tell them my complaints about my nose, they become mute... Also, when it gets cold, my nose turns extremely blue and red and my nose (starting from 2/3rd of my nose bridge to the tip) feels like it's going to fall off. In fact, it gets so painful that when I go outside, I have to use a facial mask and even then a facial mask is not enough and I have to use a scarf to raise the temperature of my nose so that I can withstand the pain. At home, I have to cover my nose with a blanket to keep it warm and I told the clinic about how much pain I was in and they didn't even give me an explanation of whether the nose will go back to it's original state or not. Instead they simply reply, without considering how important a surgery that deals with a person's face is, without a conscience or remorse, "we'll just take it (rib cartilage) out then..." I guess blinded by money, they are unable to see that I am a living person. Their nonchalant attitude towards ruining a person's life and shifting the blame should be punished. They made me wait a year and after a year I had the same complaints. And when I tell them my complaints, I see the attitude of the the doctor and the general manager change completely before my eyes (I trusted them genuinely before the surgery) and I feel like I was conned into having surgery and I feel very displeased. At this clinic, you need to record the consultation... I wish you don't have to go through my hardship and that you choose a right clinic. Other places that use rib cartilage can complete the surgery in about 3 hours and 30 minutes... this place estimated around 6 hours for the surgery. However, the actual surgery was over 10 hours, almost twice as long as the estimated time. My instincts tell me that the doctor performed another surgery at the same time, on the same day. When I was done with my surgery and was in the recovery room, another patient had just finished her surgery and was moved into the recovery room as well... Because the surgery lasted so much longer than the estimated time, my guardian was so stressed out waiting for me that she had to take two chung-shim-won (korean medicine for stress & shock). A few months after, their excuse for the long surgery was that the I was still sedated from the anaesthesia and was sleeping it off in the recovery room... Isn't it murder ??? that a clinic like this is still making money and is still in business? They perform surgery on many many people and when they see victim after victim, I don't understand how they do not feel any remorse... They tell the patients to wait, and the patients innocently trust and wait, and meanwhile the families of the patient has to watch them suffer and be overwhelmed with stress... I guess they don't care about that. They will eventually get what they deserve, for exchanging people's lives for money. Please be careful and be even more careful. A doctor with skill and character does not perform "aggressive", "complicated", "long" procedures unless it is vital. Please remember this and remember it again. For me, the life I had planned was ruined in a moment. Please select a surgeon who has both skills and character so you don't have to cross this lake that you cannot come back from... (crying face). I write this with hopes that you don't have to go through what I did... With a clinic like this, all those who want to become more attractive, your dreams will burst like bubbles. A clinic like this must be closed as soon as possible. Without the skills to back it up, they claim that they are the best and that there will be no problems, They have no conscience and a doctor like this should not be allowed to practice. I believe that this clinic will go out of business if you, cafe members, treat my post seriously. They will close the clinic and they will regret their actions. If you're scheduled for surgery soon, please think it through carefully over and over again. I genuinely thank you for reading my post with interest. ^^ (bow)" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kain Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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