dayibaqu Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 koreanboy you should ignore me and keep posting your advertisement. It actually has some useful information for people who plan to have surgery, and people can see what kind of games the hospital plays here. Everyone else Please read koreanboy's post carefully and avoid WONJIN as plague. They have beautiful building, provide good service but the quality of their surgeries are extremely inconsistent and their ethics is very problematic. In 2006 and 2007, this hospital hired a lot of people to posts so-called "surgery experiences" on Chinese websites, and therefore was very popular among Chinese patients. A lot of girls did their surgeries there, and now get their face destroyed or at least unproportionate. Now nobody in China, Hongkong and Taiwan believe them and they lost their Chinese-speaking market (which consist of how much of the entire market of Asian plastic surgery, you can do the math yourself). Whether they are popular among the locals, I have no idea. However I think most of you know how many plastic surgery clinics are there in South Korea and the size of their overall population. Wonjin destroyed their own reputation and don't have much business to do nowadays, that's why they reached their evil hands to the English-speaking market. Maybe they didn't realize there is such a big market out there until this August I told people about this forum on a Chinese website from which wonjin once successfully lured a lot of victims in 2006 and 2007. (they still do the same things on that Chinese website--post "surgery experiences", trash other hospitals) .In October, they began to play these old tricks here. I don't know if you guys remeber there is not only one Korean American boy posts on this forum. Before koreanboy there was a practiceboy page 64), joined this forum on oct20th, and posted just once. Unlike most of the people search the internet for information. These two boys just nicely share their knowledge. Maybe koeanboy will say that’s because he first use the user name "practiceboy", and just accidentally forget the password. Anyway, English for me is a difficult language to learn and if you have second language learning experience you would know I am not enjoying writing it. However, since I think because I may exposed this forum to some hospital skilled at using scams to attract patients and has no moral obligations , if any of you who really go to wonjin and end up with a crooked chin or nose, how can I persuade myself into believing I am not responsible at all? That's all I can say. I may be biased, but I didn't lie. So, please use your own judgement, read koreanboy's posts carefully. If anyone would like to believe him , and think I may be sent by other hospital to trash Wonjin, I have nothing to say... I guess the final result of koreaboy's surgery would be very alluring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayibaqu Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 Actually, if you like to see the good works done by Wonjin, I can show you some pictures http://star.pclady.com.cn/hongren/0709/191103.html This girl is a Chinese model she did a couple of surgeries, not all of these surgeries are done at WONJIN's, but clearly all her surgeries are very successful. There is another her "after" http://image1.daqi.com/pic_search/original/36835/0c6ce621e06f8d4c382cb85b35476277.jpg Most stories I heard about their hospital, is that girls get crooked noses and chins even after they received surgeries 4 or 5 times from this hospital. If you would like to take the risk, it is not difficult to find a translator. A lot of people are doing this as a business. Most of the Chinese girls were able to get their surgery done in Korea, because they find a translator first, not because hospitals provide Chinese services. The translator can pick you up from the airport, book hotel for you and take care of you during the surgery. Normally, the girls would pick several hospitals and ask the translator to book consultations for them. Then when the patient arrives in Korea, the translator/tour guide will take her to the hospitals one by one and translate for her. Finally, the patient will choose from one hospital which she feels good for her. Another thing that need to pay attention is that hospitals pay the translator if the translator bring in a patient for them. Anyway, I don’t know if you guys have realized how intense the competition is among these hospitals. I myself didn’t really think about this until recently. You can google how many clinics are there in Seoul, and think about how many Asian really need and can afford plastic surgeries, you’ll have a picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayibaqu Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 One more thing I want to remind you guys. Artificial materials are not good for nose augmentation. They may look good in the beginning, but silicon will eventually become very hard and maybe protrude out of your skin(because of gravity). And gortex has a very easy to get infected, and difficult to be removed when things go wrong. I can say so because I just have my silicon implant removed about 1 month ago, I didnt believe silicon was not good until my nose began to show signs of protruding, after it had been perfect after almost 10 years. I'm living in western Canada, the doctor removed my implant is Dr Martin Giuffre, I am not sure if he is good in doing Asian rhinoplasty, but I think the doctors in the city I live normally would not have much experience, so I didn't do the revision surgery and just have the implant removed. If you don't believe me you can check normally at what time I post reply. If I work for other hospital to trash Wonjin and are not living in Canada that means I had to make posts in midnights or very early in the morning, so it could show here that the posts were made during daytime or in evening. In American and Canada, doctors didn’t use silicon for a long time, if you really want a silicon nose done, you have to change implant every 10-15 year. This is what people do with silicon breast augmentation. I f you don’t believe me, you can call and ask your local surgeon. Gortex is the kind of material your blood vessels will grow into and will become very hard when time goes by, which makes it difficult to remove when things go wrong. You may think if the doctor is very skilled, nothing would go wrong. BUT when the material become hard, it will give pressures to your skin and eventually cause infection. All these thing happen after 10, even 20 years, so think about it before you make any choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayibaqu Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 Finally, I found this Taiwanese doctor mentioned several surgeons he respect in doing rhinoplasty http://nose123.house-ware.com.tw/company-profile.htm It is in Chinese (but the doctor’s names are English) , I list them here so you guys can think about them: Toriumi Gunter, Adamson, Aiech Another doctor http://www.psbeauty.com.tw/html/charm3c.html he said (and I translate it): …I believe in “learning from acclaimed doctors” from different places of the world, and go for international meeting. I would like to learn from American rhinoplastic surgeons Dr. Sheen、Dr. Rollin Daniel、Dr. Guyuron、Dr. Gruber、 Dr.Gunter; maste of facelift r Dr. Little William from New York, Dr.Saski from Pasadena, L.A., Dr.Ramirez from Baltimore; master of fat grafting Dr. Klein from New York.;famous plastic surgeon Dr. Antonio Fuente del Campo from Mexico; rhinoplastic surgeon Dr Jung from Korea; Dr Fukuta from Japan… I also hear from many different place, Dr. Oh (Oh Young Hwan, O & young clinic) is very skilled, and he really did do a lot of advertisements until recently he went for a meeting in China. I never heard of VIP except from here. However Dr Lee is a student of Dr Gunter in Dallas(mentioned above). I hope these can be helpful, and good luck to everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izora Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 What's your email address? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izora Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 Yes, you are correct about artificial materials. It looks like you did your homework. The silicone inside my nose felt so hard. I thought it was just my imagination at first, but the silicone became harder over time. It definitely felt softer at first, but I'm not sure when it became hard (had it for 19 years). It's only been about two months since my revision with 100% rib cartilage, and so far I have no complaints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kain Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 hi dayibaqu. we are all aware that unscrupulous hospitals can pay reviewers. but it is up to each of us to take every review with a grain of salt. there is no need to assert so fiercely that kboy was paid to post a review. while we appreciate the concern, we would like to maintain an online environment where reviews are encouraged. again, we are grateful for the warning. if the clinic did indeed do what you accuse them of, it is something to consider strongly. but it was uncalled for to outright call kboy an advertiser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kain Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 also, out of self-interest, i would like anyone who has made detracting claims about goretex to come forward with a reliable source, as i am considering using goretex for a primary rhinoplasty. regarding this claim "gortex has a very easy to get infected, and difficult to be removed when things go wrong" there are two things wrong with this statement. 1. there have been approximately half a dozen studies of goretex with various follow-up periods (ranging from ~1 year to 17years) and none of them have reported significant infection rates. from the top of my head, the overall infection rate was less than 4% 2. difficult to remove: i have only ever heard this arguement from surgeons who admit to never have used (or have no experience with) goretex in a primary capacity. they may have had to remove goretex but it was, presumably, difficult for them because they were unprepared for the in-growth that the porosity of the material had caused. all surgeons who deal with goretex on a regular basis have made the claim that they are able to remove goretex with little or no trouble. also, note that the pores in goretex are microscopic it is true that tissue can grow into it, but the extent to which this happens is not as large as you think. and the tissue in-growth actually helps prevent infection the reason i am posting is because i have heard these very claims made about goretex numerous times on this forum. however, nobody ever gave a reliable source, which is frustrating because all the medical literature indicates that goretex is safe. but people who have never had any experience with goretex at all keep saying the opposite. i suspect that this is due to a personl bias (usually because the person wants to convince themselves that they made the absolute best choice in choosing silicone or rib) so if anyone can find a source that says that goretex is easily infected or difficult to remove (for experienced surgeons) please do so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamnyc Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 I'm at jamnyc78 @ gmail.com. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koreanboy Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 I think most people with reasonable judgment would agree that I've been pretty sensible in everything I've posted and that this dayibaqu person is a little nuts. She seems to have lots of conspiracy theories and makes lots of medical and otherwise argumentative claims but has failed to actually proffer any evidence for them other than her "word." And, she's also now mentioned the name of my clinic WAY more times than I ever have. In any event, I want to say for the record that I have absolutely no stake in the clinic I went to and could not care less whether any of you goes there or not. In fact, please feel free not to - that's more than 100% fine by me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koreanboy Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 What "homework"? The only evidence she provided for any of the numerous medico-scientific claims she proferred was that she herself once had to get a silicone implant removed. Her single, isolated personal experience with something doesn't lend credence to a wholesale characterization of that thing. You're sort of similar. You tout the supremacy of the material that you most recently used over the material that you had to have removed and cite this as evidence of the supremacy you claim... again, your single, isolated experience (which, by the way, is pretty limited - you're comparing your silicone nose of 19 years to your rib nose of 2 months... wouldn't a fairer and more accurate comparison only be possible after another 19 years with your rib nose?). In one of my first posts on this message boad, I posted links to about a dozen pieces of academic studies and other pieces of literature that have been published in peer-reviewed medico-scientific journals in the U.S. that all downplay the supremacy of one particular grafting material over another and stress that each has its pros and cons and that the technique and skill of the surgeon is the most important factor in determining the success of grafting. But, you sort of laugh in the face of science and maintain that your single experience proves it all wrong. You DO know that rib has lots of problematic issues too, right? Especially when used wrong, which it often is because it's overly complex? In fact, check out this entire blog dedicated to the problems caused by rib grafts used by Dr. Dean Toriumi in the U.S., one of the most "famous" rhinoplasty surgeons in the world (and, ironically, highly recommended by our crazy friend dayibaqu!): http://drtoriumipatienttestimonialsandsugges.blogspot.com/ I think that kain is a voice of reason in saying that it's sort of self-serving to try and instill a sense of confidence in the grafting material you used over other grafting materials. It's like you're reassuring yourself that nothing's going to go wrong this time and that what happened last time can TOTALLY 100% be blamed on the material alone. But wake up - this is obviously not the case. A lot of things were probably an issue with your last rhinoplasty, NOT just the material, and there is a VERY SUBSTANTIAL LIKELIHOOD that there are going to be problems with your current one, too - you just have to face those facts and stop preaching pseudo-science based on your individual experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koreanboy Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 One last thing - if you want pretty conclusive evidence that I'm NOT an advertisement and that I'm totally 100% real, just sharing my real experience... I've actually been maintaining this same exact blog on a different American message board where most of the people seem to be white and where nobody talks about coming to Korea for plastic surgery. So I never once mentioned the name of the clinic I went to on that message board because I figured it would be totally irrelevant to them. If I was really being paid by my clinic to advertise it, why would I write all my experiences on a second message board where no one is interested in coming to Korea? And why would I not even once mention where I got my surgery done? I think this proves that I just wanted to share my experiences with people and never meant to advertise anything at all - I actually didn't tell any of my family or friends (besides my 2 best friends) that I was getting surgery, so it was really lonely not being able to talk to anyone about my experience. I figured that writing a blog like this would be a nice way to express and share all my feelings about the whole experience. I had no idea that some crazy Chinese woman would, based on no evidence, accuse me of being paid to write such glowing descriptions of, among other things, the wonderful sensation of oozing bloody snot bubbles out of my nose on the third day after my surgery. Anyway, here's the link to the other message board thread. Check the dates - every post matches up with the corresponding post here. Happy?http://messageboards.makemeheal.com/rhinoplasty/korean-nose-job-blog-pictures-t140112.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foodisevil Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 what dayibaqu is saying makes sense...there are so many cosmetic surgery clinics in korea that offer good prices, free accomm, student discounts, free airport pickups and so on...we gotta be careful and not be so naive... but thx again for updating us koreanboy...really curious how you're gonna look day by day. you seem like a very open person...your posts are very detailed and pix very clear...not shy at all...haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayibaqu Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 I'm sorry my posts make you uncomfrotable. I understiand what you are talking about here. When I first saw people use extremly strong words to claim certain posts are advertisements on Chinese websites, I felt those people were doing something unnecessary, annoying and somewhat offensive. Seriously, do you have to sound like fascist to make your point? I don't know much about the American mannerism, but I thnik it is the same in every culture that talking like this actually put yourself in an awkward position and make your words less believable. But I reallt have to do something to cause enough attention. I know that eventually people will see clearly what is going on, but that takes time. In the meantime of course some people who read reviews more carefully would see it, but there will be vicitms. In China this kind of advertisements were very effective for 3 years. In these 3 years, their were people who pointed out that the hospital just playing some tricks, however the advertising posts always outnumbered the posts talk against them. Believe it or not, the hospitals put a large part of their money and energy in doing these things. If you read a lot of them you can see all these posts bear a lot similarities.This is curious because sometimes the advertisemts are not for the same hospital.There is some kind of "online advertising company" who specilazed in doing this kind of thing??? Ok, I will stop forcing people to believe me here. All my views are subjective (I think you've already known it from the tone of my voice+_+!). Actually, there are many helpful facts from the advertising posts-- good for the patients if they know these are advertisements. At last, I said koreaboy posting advertisement. I take those words back. Since I will never (and nobody will) kown if he is an advertiser, I should not say he is just because his posts bear uncanny similarity to the advertiemnts I saw. For this reason, I apologize to koreaboy. Please continue to post here. Your posts are really appreciated. If you are not a advertiser, just ignore me and keep posting, eventually your posts would prove I was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kain Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 i don't think he is advertising. he did not mention the name of the clinic even once on the other forumhttp://messageboards.makemeheal.com/rhinoplasty/korean-nose-job-blog-pictures-t140112.html and i'm not sure why you think i sound like a fascist. >.< i was trying to mediate the discussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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