k-couture Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 So in November I was in Seoul for 3 days and all I did there was back to back consultations at 5 different clinics. I figure my experience might be of some use to those of you looking to get work done in Seoul. I'll go through what I like and dislike about each clinic, what I noticed, what to look out for and how and why I selected Dream medical as my most likely candidate for revision surgery. Please note that Dream medical may not be suitable for you as it really depends on each individual's needs and expectations. ALSO IF ANYONE HAS HAD PROCEDURES DONE AT DREAM? Pls let me know as while Im almost certain ill be going there, some feedback and reviews would be good because so far I haven't managed to find any post op info on them. Before I begin, a little bit about my surgical experience. I've had 2 nose jobs both open and closed rhino(one with silicone and the other with diced ear cartilage and scalp tissue), an alar reduction, a concentric malar lift, 2 buccal fat removals, double eye lid surgery, 2 chin implants (silicone and then replaced with hydroxyapatite), concentric malar lift and hydroxyapatite implant in the mid cheek (subsequently removed the hydroxy due to too much elevation), and a jaw reduction. I am quite lucky after having so much work done I do not look plastic and fake in the very least, but it has been a learning curve and in some ways trial and error for me. All i can say now is that I know how to better select the right surgeons, the right procedures and ask the right questions for myself. Anyways so before I arrived in Seoul, I had sent off several e-mails to different clinics based on research I had done and recommendations. Most of the e-mail replies you get will be from consultants and not the surgeons so I urge you to interpret them accordingly as whatever information they give you will most likely not be sufficient or 100% accurate for your individual case. Leave your decision making to when you meet the surgeons. For me, I wanted to get a revision rhino, lateral canthoplasty and cheekbone reduction. The clinics i visited were 1) Dream, 2) VIP, 3) BK, 4) OZ clinic and 5) ID clinic. I was going to visit Regen but didn't have the time. Do a ctrl find with the numbers if you just want to read up on these specific hospitals. I apologise in advance as I can seem long winded. I try to be as detailed as possible! Also i had to split the post into 3 parts cos its too long so bear with me lol.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-couture Posted December 8, 2013 Author Share Posted December 8, 2013 1) Dream Medical http://en.e-dream.co.kr/ My first stop was DREAM. Upon entering I noticed it looked like a fancy iphone store, very white, very clinical, very minimalist and very corporate looking. It was also filled with mainland chinese in there. They have 2 translators who are available on certain days for english speakers and everyday they have Chinese translators available. I've realized that the protocol in Seoul is that they will first send you to see the consultants, who will recommend you procedures based on what you want to achieve, what they offer and what they think you should get done. After that they will send you to see the surgeons. For me, whatever the consultants say goes in one ear and out the other because I am aware that their job is to sell you procedures and they have little to no medical training. Especially with my case since its rather complicated. First surgeon I met was Dr Park Yang Soo, who specializes in Rhinoplasty. He is also the director at Dream. Very friendly, down to earth and informational. He may not speak perfect english, but he is fluent enough where we can communicate and understand each other. His solution for my rhinoplasty would be a closed procedure, removing what scar tissue i may have incurred from the previous revision open rhinoplasty and using an Ultra Soft Silicone implant which will then be placed underneath the muscle just above the bone. At this point I was rather surprised that he would do it through closed rhino as every other surgeon I have spoken to said I had to have open rhinoplasty. He explained that as I have already had one open rhino, another would risk causing further scarring to the nose and he had ample experience to perform the surgery. Next I went to see Dr Kim Young-Joon, facial bone specialist at Dream. He looked at the 3d facial scan and CT they just did for me and immediately said, "you do not have wide protruding cheekbones so a cheekbone reduction is not advised. It will simple make you lose the angles in your face and cause sagging. One cheek bone look slightly bigger than the other because as this 3d scan shows, you have a very slight asymmetry." He told me to fix this asymmetry there was a drastic option which pretty much involves breaking your face is half and reattaching it, but this was only for patients with very severe asymmetry and not for me. The other method would be to use acculift. A minimally invasive laser which will shrink my soft tissue from the inside of my face. He explained it as an "internal shrink wrap" to the face. Now this made sense to me as my asymmetry was only made obvious from all the other crap I had done to my face which I didnt really need. From looking at the 3d scan i could tell it had nothing to do with having one cheekbone that is wider than the other. Last Surgeon I went to see at Dream was Dr Cho Hye In. She is the eye specialist. A very young doctor, not too chatty, speaks softly and didn't explain much to me. I said I wanted a lateral Canthoplaty to make my eyes look bigger from the bottom edge. She uses a medical object against my lower eye lid, pulled it down slightly and held up a mirror. "You want it to look like this?". I said yes and she said there would be scarring and swelling for a few months but she could do it. What I liked about Dream? a) Very professional and customer centric atmosphere. b) Whilst waiting for the surgeons to meet me I sat next to a couple who was waiting for their post op check up. This 65 year old grand mother who looked like she was in her mid 30s was only a week post op and I couldn't see any scarring and minimal swelling. Very impressed. c) Park Yang Soo and Kim Young Joon explained the procedures to me in detail, were thorough with communication and patient with my many questions. I also LOVE IT when a surgeon tells you not to get a procedure because they feel it would not be suitable for you. Patient satisfaction and care > Profit. What did i not like about Dream? a) Dr Cho Hye In did not make me feel comfortable letting her potentially operate on me. She was not too detailed in her explanations either. b) Consultant who wasn't very knowledgable...but thats kinda to be expected. 2) Next stop VIP! http://www.beauty-korea.com/ So this clinic is alot smaller and less luxurious than Dream, but it was still aesthetically pleasing. If im correct there is only one surgeon there too, Dr Lee Myung Ju. Which isn't a problem as long as he is skilled in the procedures he offers. His consultant who doubled up as the translator was present during the consultation. She spoke fluent English and my god was she knowledgable. The first consultant I have ever encountered who could explain the procedures involved in such detail. She also wasn't trying to sell me any surgeries at all but rather focusing on the problem at hand. Dr Lee began by asking me what was in my nose. I told him diced cartilage, scalp tissue and goretex underneath. He was shocked when I told him there was goretex in there too.....but its a very common reaction since Charles Lee of Beverly Hills is an awful surgeon. He then used a camera to look into my nose and told me I had a deviated septum which had to be corrected too by using cartilage to build the shape. He said an open procedure is the only method possible for me using rib cartilage. I asked if I could use donor cartilage and he said the reabsorption rate is too high for that to be feasible. The invasive nature of rib harvesting and knowing the cons of using cartilage left me uncomfortable with having my nose done with him despite reassurance of his skill from both himself and his consultant. I also asked him about a cheekbone reduction and lateral canthoplasty. You see one thing I always do is try to compare the answers different surgeons will give you regarding a procedure and method in order to make an informed decision. He said he could do cheekbone reduction on me but not during the same time as the cartilage rib rhino for safety reasons. He admitted there is always some form of sagging during a cheekbone reduction and explained it like this. "your cheek bones are like the structures of a tent, only they are holding up facial fat, soft tissue and skin. When you reduce them naturally there will be some sagging. The degree depends on the method and skill of the surgeon." What he said is very true as I've had several top surgeons advise me against cheekbone reduction for that very reason. Lastly we discussed a lateral canthoplasty. He told me that procedure has a high failure rate with the current methods used and causes visible scarring. He also said long term effects are not promising as when we age our eyes naturally start to sag. He further articulated that he has seen many patients who have botched lateral cathos and end up getting revision surgeries over and over again with little success. This made me think twice about the lateral canthoplasty. What I liked about VIP? a) very thorough and knowledgable english speaking consultant. Not to mention fluent in English b) detailed explanations from the surgeon. Tho he had to leave early because of a scheduled surgery, his consultant was sufficient in aiding me with whatever further questions i may have had. c) Advised me against potentially unsuitable procedures. Always good to learn of different opinions and the logics behind it. What I did not like about VIP? a) not really their fault but i do wish there were alternatives to the rib rhino in my case. b) Dr Lee said a 3d scan when unnecessary when i asked him about cheekbone reductions. After that insightful consultation at Dream, i would say a 3d facial scan is a MUST. c) Dr Lee wanted to correct my deviated septum and said my nose will always be lopsided because of it. However, I actually asked other surgeons during my consultations in seoul and even went back to Dream once more the day before I left Seoul and spoke to Dr Park about this. They all said that you only need to correct a deviated septum if you have breathing problems. Its unnecessary to correct it otherwise as there are people with perfectly straight noses with deviated septums. Its very common. I also recalled reading of him saying the same thing to other people on this forum who also felt they didnt need to correct their septum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-couture Posted December 8, 2013 Author Share Posted December 8, 2013 3. Next is BK Dong Yang. Not even going to recommend this place so I'm not posting the link. Lets make this quick and easy. Staff, especially the consultant kept pushing me to put a deposit for my surgery BEFORE I EVEN GOT TO SEE THE SURGEON. She had little knowledge of the procedures i was inquring about and kept trying to add on procedures i didnt need! Even tried to get me to have another 3d facial instead of using the CD with the data i had from Dream JUST SO SHE COULD CHARGE EXTRA! Everyone knows too many Xrays is not good for you! When i finally got to see the head surgeon, he was rude, arrogant and didn't explain anything to me. Didn't listen to my concerns but instead told me what I should get done. Basically he was adding on more and more procedures like I was his ATM machine. Some people interprete arrogance as skill, but I say arrogance in a surgeon will lead to unsatisfactory results in the patient. My case is complicated enough as it is, I cannot afford to have a surgeon half *** my procedure. Not to mention i was so put off by him that I didn't even remember his name because I just blocked it out. 4. OZ clinic After BK i went to OZ clinic. Now about OZ, they only have one surgeon and that's HyunCheol Park. He handles all the English speaking patients himself through e-mail. His e-mail replies are detailed and thorough. He is a little arrogant and set in his ways but also willing to entertain your opinions. He is one of those "tell you how it is" surgeons, but what he proposes may not necessarily be to your expectations. Before i arrived in Seoul I was quite certain I would go with OZ due to the detailed e-mails he would send me regarding my inquiries.....It turns out I was wrong. Here's what happened.... I had an appointment at 3pm. I showed up at 2.45pm. The clinic was unattractive and there was no one at the front desk. The whole place was empty. After calling for reception a few times a nurse finally came out. She told me I had to come back after 2 hours......I told her that is not possible as I had not only booked a month in advance, I also had a consultation at another clinic at 5pm. She told me to wait for 10 mins and what happened next blew my mind.... Dr Park walked out of his OR with blood on his gloves to greet me, told me to sit in his office while he washes his hand....He then explained he had a patient lying on the operating table because the surgery had some complication and went longer than expected. ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME? How can a surgeon leave his patient lying on the operating table while he comes in for a consultation, especially after the surgery had some complications. I was shocked to say the least because that could have been me. When I asked him about my rhinoplasty, he didn't have a clear plan of what he wanted to do, rather he said he would just open me up and see what he could do. He said most likely he will remove the cartilage but leave the goretex. Issue with that I had is I knew the goretex would not give me sufficient elevation. He said most of my elevation came from the goretex but I can actually feel the cartilage in my nose and I know from both having it implanted inside me and reading the medical report that majority of elevation I had was from the cartilage and not the goretex. For the lateral cantho and cheekbone reduction he said he could easily perform them and didnt require a 3d scan because his method used never causes any sagging......read what I said in my discussion of VIP and Dream medical to know why that is not true. I also asked him about using the new product called Ultra Soft Silicone and he said goretex is better because it has been used for many years and Ultra Soft Silicone is new and unproven. He also told me Goretex is not difficult to remove. But from what other surgeons have told me, and reading medical reports on problems involving excision of goretex, I had to disagree with him. 5. ID Clinic I only booked an appointment there because a friend of mine from Hong Kong had a really nice nose job done. Bearing in mind the negative reviews I have read on ID, I went in with my guard up. So to keep this simple, my experience at ID clinic is somewhere along the lines of what I experienced at BK. 6. Went back to Dream Medical By this point I was onto my last consultation which was Regen. However, after taking in all the information I have gathered from the surgeons I've seen, I felt I had some final questions for my first choice clinic. So being out of time and flying off at 8am the next day, I rang the reception at Dream and requested to see Doctor Park Yang Soo again. They scheduled me in as his last appointment at 5.30pm. I started by asking him about the Ultra Soft Silicone. He showed me a sample and indeed it was alot softer than the typical hard silicone implant. My concerns were because my skin is alot thinner due to the botched job Charles Lee had given me with the diced cartilage and goretex implant, I would risk infection using an artificial implant. I needed assurance that he would do everything he could to avoid infection as I really would rather do a closed rhino method like he proposed. Dr Park drew a diagram and explained that his method which involved placing the implant above the bone and under the firm piece of muscle (can't remember the name of the muscle sorry), along with the material of the implant, he feels it would not be a problem. I had to keep pushing, "but what if my skin is still too thin for the implant?". He then said he would judge it accordingly and if he feels its too thin, he would then protect it with auto dermis which is a fatty tissue taken from the lower spine area??? It was a bit much for me to understand all at once but I told him I would not be comfortable with him harvesting it from me to which he said he would use donor material that's been manufactured for better shape. He then went into detail about the company that manufactures it. This made me feel more comfortable with his method. Last thing I asked about the rhinoplasty was how he would remove my current implants as the goretex would be difficult to remove. He said he uses a method which involves saline to loosen up the implants to allow to easier removal. Again, he was so technical about it that I didn't grasp the methodology. In hindsight I should have asked more but I knew I would be back in Seoul again to see him. For now I was digesting what information a lay person like myself could. Finally I expressed concerns with the lateral canthoplasty and asked if he could perform it instead of Dr Cho Hye since i wasn't comfortable with her. He took one look at me and pulled my lower eyelid slightly down and said, "I don't recommend. It seems to me you've had incisions on your lower eyelid before so the muscle is now weaker. There's a good chance the lateral canthoplasty will cause the red part to be visible." He was spot on. I never told him my concentric malar lift was approached through an incision from the lower lid but he knew the moment he analysed me. And unlike Dr Cho, he quickly advised me against the lateral cantho which I'm glad he did. So that concludes my consultations in Seoul. If any of you have any questions feel free to ask me I'll help if I can. Also any information on Dream and post op results would be so greatly appreciated. Regen too if any of you have been there as I'm going to go see them before I finally decide on where to go. But for now most likely its going to be Dream Medical for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icy-c Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Thanks for sharing your consultations with us. It definitely seems like Dream is the best clinic for you when are you planning to do the actual surgeries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-couture Posted December 8, 2013 Author Share Posted December 8, 2013 sometime in May or June. I would get it done in Jan but didn't want it to clash with my new years plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgraceselda Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Hi K, thank you so much for your helpful info . I was thinking to consult with Dr Park from OZ but read your post i changed my mind. Can you suggest good surgeon or clinic for me to get Mandible angle and zygoma reduction ? also for my mother shes about 60 yrs old she wants to get facelift where should i take her ? Thank you in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgraceselda Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Hi K , My shortlisted clinics for Jaw and zygoma reduction are TLPS, Girin , DAPRS and EverM , what do u think ? thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-couture Posted December 9, 2013 Author Share Posted December 9, 2013 I would go to Kim Young Joon at Dream for Mandible angle and zygoma reduction consultation. He hasn't operated on me yet so i can only recommend you based on my consultation experience and not surgical experience with him. But he is very conservative and will tell you what he feels is suitable and depending on your case, may advise you against it. They also offer complimentary 3d facial xray and ct scan. Its quite amazing to see your actual skull rotated on the 3d monitor. If you go there remember to get them to make you a CD too. I think they charge 15-20 USD for the CD but you can use it at other clinics for your consult so you dont have to do mutiple pointless scans and expose yourself to radiation unnecessarily. At the very least even if you do not decide to go with Dream you can get some helpful info from the surgeons there. Also for your mother i definitely would recommend her to go to Dream also. As I mentioned, when i was at Dream Medical I met a couple in their 60s who were waiting for their post op consultation with their surgeon. Unfortunately I did not ask them which surgeon operated on them but the results were amazing. The 65 year old grandmother had a full facelift, and a brow lift and eye bags removed. She was 1 week post op and had minimal swelling. I also never noticed any scarring. I was surprised when she told me her age because she looked like she was in her mid 30s following the procedures. Her husband had his eye bags removed. He showed me what they looked like before in a photo on his iphone. I couldn't even tell he had eyebags to begin with. So based on their result and my conversation with them, I would definitely suggest your mum going to dream for a consult and go from there. Also you can bargain the price down when having multiple people/procedures done at the same time. Don't go with an agency as they will recommend you to a clinic which pays them the best commission. I only decided to have my revision work done in Korea because my surgeon in Australia who is 2008's president of the ASAPS made a recent medical research trip to Seoul and told me of their advanced technology for zygoma reductions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-couture Posted December 9, 2013 Author Share Posted December 9, 2013 sorry grace i can't help you there as I have never been to those clinics and thus don't know enough about them to comment. Whenever I go for my consults I have a pen and paper ready and write down notes on what each surgeon says and then ask a different surgeon about their opinion on the procedures and methods. I also tend to ask trick questions which I know the answer to as a way to see how honest and upfront the surgeons are. That's the safest way to go I think because at the end of the day its your face you're talking about so you have to make the best and most informed decision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanaf Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Thanks for your detailed info! it's so helpful. Umm I also read in one if your post a scar removal treatment cream for ure lid surgery scar. Can you elaborate on that pls? how soon after surgery can I use it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverperfect Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Anyways so before I arrived in Seoul, I had sent off several e-mails to different clinics based on research I had done and recommendations. Most of the e-mail replies you get will be from consultants and not the surgeons so I urge you to interpret them accordingly as whatever information they give you will most likely not be sufficient or 100% accurate for your individual case. Leave your decision making to when you meet the surgeons. For me, I wanted to get a revision rhino, lateral canthoplasty and cheekbone reduction. The clinics i visited were 1) Dream, 2) VIP, 3) BK, 4) OZ clinic and 5) ID clinic. I was going to visit Regen but didn't have the time. Do a ctrl find with the numbers if you just want to read up on these specific hospitals. I apologise in advance as I can seem long winded. I try to be as detailed as possible! Also i had to split the post into 3 parts cos its too long so bear with me lol....[/QUOTE] K Couture, Your post is very informative I'm glad you suggested how to treat the e-mails consultation, which indeed replied by the consultants. I've actually crossed out one clinic b/c they offered too many procedures via emails. I just don't want to deal with many consultations and tried to shorten my list to prevent confusion. Now, I will add this specific clinic back on my list because I really like what I see from their You-tubes. I was thinking about including Dream Medical for consultation too. I will add include it on my list b/c I like their style as well. (I visited the Dream medical here in LA but Dr. Kenneth apparently specialized for eyes only, he was nice though, no consultation fee). Looks like we have the same taste Initially, I was thinking about allowing myself one week just for consultations, and now after reading your posts I think I might have some leftover time - with one week timeframe for a minor procedure, something like skin treatment. Anyway, I still have a few months to finalize my trip. Talk to you soon, thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-couture Posted December 13, 2013 Author Share Posted December 13, 2013 Oh its not a scar removal scream. Its actually an injection. The needles are super tiny. You can't inject too much at a time since it basically dissolves the scar so you don't want it to burn your skin. You have to go to a plastic surgeon or dermatologist to do it. My surgeon did it for me 3 days post op, then 1 week post op then 2 weeks post op. I had 3 sets of injections all up and it disappeared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-couture Posted December 13, 2013 Author Share Posted December 13, 2013 K Couture, Your post is very informative I'm glad you suggested how to treat the e-mails consultation, which indeed replied by the consultants. I've actually crossed out one clinic b/c they offered too many procedures via emails. I just don't want to deal with many consultations and tried to shorten my list to prevent confusion. Now, I will add this specific clinic back on my list because I really like what I see from their You-tubes. I was thinking about including Dream Medical for consultation too. I will add include it on my list b/c I like their style as well. (I visited the Dream medical here in LA but Dr. Kenneth apparently specialized for eyes only, he was nice though, no consultation fee). Looks like we have the same taste Initially, I was thinking about allowing myself one week just for consultations, and now after reading your posts I think I might have some leftover time - with one week timeframe for a minor procedure, something like skin treatment. Anyway, I still have a few months to finalize my trip. Talk to you soon, thanks again.[/QUOTE] I'm glad you found this useful. Yeah depending on how many consultations you have 1 week should be more than enough. I basically crammed all my consultations into a few days, starting from 10am and leaving 2-3 hour gaps in between. They all tend to be in sinsa-dong gangnam so its easy getting from place to place. 1 week will give you some good shopping and leisure time too hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyglittery Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 what is it called please? i want to know too! ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-couture Posted December 13, 2013 Author Share Posted December 13, 2013 Hi, its called Kenacort. Ask your surgeon or dermatologist about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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