jeet-dhindsa Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 You hit the nail on the head. My goal is not to get you to trust me, my goal is for foreigners to develop a healthy sense of skepticism, and to be smart consumers by developing better filters and criteria for setting treatment goals and evaluating information, which you seem to be doing. Because I work in the startup sector, I know about these communities, it's my job to know the landscape of other platforms. Coordinators have also shared details about how those other sites operate with me as well. One company supporting me is a domestic marketing agency (angel supporter), and they have showed me requests from many companies in Korea asking for fake user generated reviews and content. That is how Naver search works in Korea, user generated content comes first, so naturally entire businesses have developed to crank out user generated content to control a brand's image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misssweety Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Hi All, So I thought I was done with this life, purseforum/ plastic surgery, however that is not the case. If you go to my previous posts you will see that I had my surgery done earlier this year. My primary research methods were forums, much like this one, and word of mouth from people I met in chat groups - which is how a lot of girls short listed their clinics. The clinic I chose was held in VERY high regard by forumers, the Dr was touted as one of the best for rhinoplasty. Unfortunately for me, my surgery did not turned out at planned- if you'd like the details feel free to pm me. My advice is do not believe everything you read - it's the internet for crying out loud!(anyone with a laptop or phone can post anything on the internet). I am not saying everyone has sinister intentions, but A LOT of people are just rambling on things they honestly have no clue about or are just regurgitating stuff they have read off the internet! I have met Jeet on several occasions when I was SK. I did not not use his site, but I needed help and someone told me to contact him. It was regarding a deposit I paid, and what are my options if I want to get it back. He met me and explained all the options to me. Now he's currently assisting me to resolve my issue and get restitution. He is someone who is really passionate about what he does, and who is really educated about the plastic surgery in and outs. In a nutshell he is a foreigner who wants to help foreigners navigate their plastic surgery trips in Korea, so that they come out at the other end happy and satisfied. It is upsetting to witness these other forumers question and slander his integrity and intentions - as I am sure some will do with mine. I can completely resonate with the desire to save a money, and bypass facilitators and find bargains on underground chatrooms; etc I am a student, and had to work for years at a mundane shift job to save the money for my surgery. But like I found out, those things are not always trustworthy! it is honestly so cut throat out there in the world of SK plastic surgery and, if its too good to be true, it probably ain't true! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindy3132 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Most people can read the PM and gauge your tone accordingly. The fact that you're on PF asking people to post their experiences onto your site can be construed as steering, but I am glad a moderator reached out to you and asked you to do it via other channels. The reason why I shared your PM is because you made a separate post to address it and used an incorrect analogy. I don't know why you ask me privately for my permission to re-post the review, then publicly say you are asking me to submit a review. Again, most people can read your PM and see for themselves. Actually... nobody except you inquired about my BA or the pricing, because there was nothing to inquire about - I already said where I had my BA and the pricing. It pertained to the other thread since it asked for success with promo pricing. I can post the ad as well for the month of November that I brought to them. But my rhinoplasty clinic wasn't offering any promotional pricing and I don't see how it would be relevant to post it. But if anyone wants to know I went to Trend and it's not that big of a secret since not many other clinics only 1 surgery a day. But what I don't understand is that you claimed to not want to self promote - thus you didn't want to disclose how your business model works and a lot of questions we prose - yet you make it no secret which company you started and you tout the government funding quite a bit. But after reading a bit about your company - it does sound like you have received a government grant to start a new business in Seoul. It does not necessarily mean that your company is officially government sanctioned and monitored as a medical broker? Please shed some light into this if you may. The reason why we are interested in this discourse with you is because you are the only person that stands to directly profit from successfully facilitating plastic surgery in Seoul since you have a company that does just that and we don't understand how you will profit from the foreign patients. Even site's like soyoung and babitalk - if you just look at their ads and bring it directly to clinics those websites are basically just platforms for advertisement and does not stand to directly profit. Plus the majority of those clinics advertising on babitalk are also on your site... If you are a government monitored (not just funded via a grant that promotes new business development in Seoul) and 100% gov't funded company that does nothing but helps foreign patients with bookings and consults that would be great and I don't believe many people would be skeptical of you. But as it stands right now - we are still unsure because you don't want to self promote. And per a quick google search, it does not seem like you have any medical background personally, you have a degree in business and you seem more experience in starting companies than plastic surgery. Per your own introduction on your website you became interested in cosmetic surgery while you are in Seoul working for Kia Motors in 2011. If you were a surgeon, nurse or even a coordinator that started their own business after years of PS experience it would raise less red flags as well. So I am also very curious as to what gives you the background to facilitate medical procedures? Do you have someone in your company with medical backgrounds vetting doctors and clinics? You did mention several times that you do it yourself so I am very curious as well. If the takeaway from the discussion is that you shouldn't trust anybody on the internet - then this thread is keeping the spirit of this discussion alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monixtuma Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Hello !~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babysevenohx Posted December 24, 2015 Author Share Posted December 24, 2015 Mindy3231 had every right to post the PM message which she had gotten. You said that you weren't asking to repost her review onto your site, but personally what I garnered was that you weren't going to "screen" her review before posting it but rather inviting her to post her review on your website directly not just on PF. It's not as though she was posting every PM out there - she respects privacy. But when you make it a public matter by trying to misconstrue message content... that's why she posted it I believe. So that every person out there can form their own opinion themselves. Private conversation between persons can be shared as well by individuals partaking in that conversation. So legally what she is doing is correct. In your post you're making a lot of assumptions. "I am communicating my position from the perspective of a foreigner, 4+ year local Seoul resident, medical beauty industry member and patient." I'm ALSO communicating from the perspective of a foreigner. I have my local Seoul friends as well as my expat friends to talk to as well. One of them owns a hospital in Korea. I'm pretty sure the info I got from talking to her dad, who works in the medical industry and is well versed in PS isn't wrong. Of course you could say where's my proof - but there's the matter of privacy as well. So I won't disclose any of his info on this website. Any student with basic knowledge about international affairs, economics, business, policies, sociology, even basic high school/university education know that it's in the government's interest to entice foreign investors to invest in their country. It's one source of economic growth. Even a simple google search (my search exactly is "foreign investors stimulate economic growth") turns up several scholar texts. This means they have been vetted by people with degrees before being publicized. Since you're so fond of them here's an article proving that governments want foreign investors because they simulate economic growth: -http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.385.4796&rep=rep1&type=pdf This is one of many out there. So, you might want to reword your marketing. Because I know I'm not the only one that fell for that marketing scheme and concluded that your business is government sanctioned. It's not a government program. You simply got a grant aka start up money and a visa to work in a foreign place and start a business there. That's not the same as being a government program. Please address this issue. You claim transparency to be what your company stands for, and yet you fail to make this small adjustment. As mindy3231 pointed out, "It does not necessarily mean that your company is officially government sanctioned and monitored as a medical broker. This is constructive criticism - not simply to attack you. You're assuming that we come from no background to make claims about the Korean PS industry. You come in, claiming to be an "addict" to PS research. Now, all of a sudden you're a patient? Do share what your experiences were if you will. And don't forget to post your experience on your site. How is your research any different from ours? Any person can go to medical korea. Any person can go clinic to clinic for consults and then form an opinion on it. It's not hard to do. You have NO medical background as mindy3132 pointed out, whereas we have medical students, nurses, some doctors, professionals from every field ! in our chat group that give their opinions on clinics they have visited. I'm sure they're far more qualified to come to a conclusion about a clinic then you. I strongly advise you to stop making assumptions about our group. Never once have we said that PS is a necessity. It's a luxury item - similar to a shopping spree. It's a treat, stop putting words into our mouths. Thank you. I have come to know some of these girls over the course of a year and they've proven to be far more resourceful and trustworthy then you. Calling them "shady" and other distasteful names... where's your professionalism? Also as for those sites... clinics use them to promote - of course. But my original point is that there's more clinics out there then the handful or so that PF has in its threads. I said that they're not the only good clinics out there, that you can learn of new clinics as well as be more aware of how pricing is as locals use it as well. Unbiased, pricing. It's a good resource. Just pointing out that reading PF posts =/= good research as many of them are backed up by promoters. It's not wrong to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindy3132 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 I am very glad we had this discussion as well, the most PMs I have received thus far are from members here who wanted to thank me for speaking with you because they have received PMs from you to sign up for your website and that you offer free services unsolicited. I am not sure if this is within forum rules? I will check with a moderator as well. After seeing the back and forth they feel more comfortable with the choice they made. I hope this also serves for people in the future as well. We can also direct our questions to the other platforms all we want, but unfortunately they don't have someone here directly promoting it like you are for your website. They also aren't here to speak as an authority on plastic surgery like you are attempting to do. But the one thing that bothers me the most is that you mentioned quite a few times that you have received funding from the Korean government and that you are hoping to engage with an Angel Investor to garner additional funding yet you also said you are still working on your business model and you are unsure of the best way for your company to profit. Like you have said yourself the Korean government does not blindly hand out checks - it just does not make sense to me that you would be able to get funding without being able to explain in detail exactly how you are planning to profit. I have have only a little bit of exposure to the VC community in USA and I my poor understanding is that a solid business plans are a requisite to get funding as well. You can't just tell a16z that you have a great idea but you're still ironing out some kinks on the profiting side, but would really like some funding. I would believe Angel Investors also would like to know the proposed business models as well. Though Angel Investors are usually wealthy individuals that injects money into a start up in exchange for equity/ownership, they don't usually invest for altruistic endeavors, they want to recoup their investment and also create profit. If they are looking to fund a charitable cause, they do it through philanthropy. Your start up has been around for 3 years and the funding that you have received thus far from the Korean government is around $30,000 USD. I don't understand how you would be able to subsist on around $10,000 a year while maintaining the trained medical staff you've mentioned, so you have to make profit somehow to at least break even and cover overhead costs. So I feel like the hardest question you are trying to dodge is how your company profits and you have been not addressing it due to said desire for lack of self promotion. I don't believe this is self promotional, it would shed a lot of light on how things work in your company so to speak. A lot of people here did get burned by unscrupulous PS facilitators, it does not necessarily mean you are one, but you can't fault us for being curious. But if you feel like you don't want to explain a lot since things may get lost in translation or it's too self promotional though you've been reaching out via PMs to promote your website. I completely understand - I feel like I already got the answer I need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babysevenohx Posted December 25, 2015 Author Share Posted December 25, 2015 PF, I hope you guys read the thread. Medical agents are going to make money off you. The relationships they've built often boils down to them establishing that they are an agent to the clinic and will send patients their way in exchange for a % of the fees you pay. Of course, there's perks into going with an agent, but be sure to inquire about their cut and see that the pricing is clear to you before making a decision. And more often than not, they're savvy businesspeople. We have an example in this thread where the agent claimed first to have medical background... but a quick google search of his name showed it to be false. There's no reason not to research procedures and get info on the clinics. I'm a firm believer that you should know what goes inside your body... that way your surgeon won't be taking raw silicone and just shoving it up your nose. Crude yes - but I have talked to girls where that has happened before. Or their implant was not properly shaved and had more on one side. As well, clinics will often project their best image onto their websites as well. Definitely reach out to get unbiased reviews. More often then not, it'll surprise you what can happen out there. Please be careful - after all this is your face. Happy Holidays every one and may we all get beautiful results in the new year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurasianbeauty Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 I don't see anything wrong with agents as long as they do their business up front and don't cause harm to befall anyone. Many people are willing to pay for convenience and that is what they are exploiting. The thing that most of these business don't' seem to get is that the premium for not being a local should NOT be double or more. There is a reasonable price to charge. But as we all are doing here, customers do their research. If you are overcharging, customers will find out and your business will dry up. As with any other industry, there is always someone else who can do the same job better and for less. The business who will get in with the clinics will be the one who brings the most PAYING customers time after time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kikiknows Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 The root problem is non of the agencies so their business "up front." They claim all services are "free," but in the end they draw a big portion of what you paid to the clinic as their commission. So for these agencies, they are not doing it for the interests of customers, they are driven by the hidden commission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurasianbeauty Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 If you properly inform yourself, then you can negotiate the proper price for your surgery(ies). People who aren't happy don't refer their friends and family. As long as I pay what I am comfortable with, I don't care how the money is divided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisousx Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 It is a shame that Jeet got banned. I just read the whole thread, learned a LOT. FWIW, I was probably overcharged as a foreigner at VIP, but 5 years later, still happy with my results and the convenience was a huge bonus. Rhinoplasties cost the same amount in LA that I paid in Korea. I could care less how the clinics justify their markup, all I know is I was picked up at the airport, fed, housed, facials and hair washed everyday, left with new friends, a beautiful nose and cost me the same as where I live. I kicked myself a bit for not bargaining, but I had to do it again, I would just worry about picking a skilled doctor and great aftercare. If you guys are worrying so much over money, I am a bit scared for you and hope that money is not the final determining factor in choosing a clinic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurasianbeauty Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 He got banned for his own behavior. There is no one to be blamed for it but him. He got away with a LOT before it happened, so... It's about the principle of being charged more - even DOUBLE for nothing except not being Korean. We bring money to not just the clinics, but the hotels, the restaurants, taxis, etc. A native South Korean isn't doing that. It's backwards when you think about it. Money doesn't dictate something's value. The best nose doctor here had lower rates until people started talking about him and he raised them. I can buy a real Balenciaga bag for $150; doesn't mean its not worth thousands. I can buy Louboutins for $200; doesn't mean they aren't worth $1200. I can buy a $1 milllion dollar house for $100k. It will still appraise for $1 million. I can pay for the surgery here. But even the best American doctors are 15 years behind South Korean doctors. The doctor I had chosen to do my nose was the best in the state and one of the best in the country. Not cheap in the least and only NYC prices would rival the cost. But something was still bothering me. I knew that I needed more than a rhinoplasty to achieve the look I want. I didn't feel that I should have to explain that to the doctor. So I started to look for the best. And I found that the best doctors in the world at plastic surgery are South Korean. The fact that they are less expensive meant nothing. They do CTs to see what the skull looks like at the consultation. That is not done in the States unless you have an extreme issue. The incredible aftercare is truly a huge part of the results since it allows you to heal probably 4 times faster than in the States. In the States there is no aftercare. General anesthesia isn't used for all cases in Seoul. In the States, they put you under for EVERYTHING. The doctors in Seoul understand the Golden Ratio and how to bring the whole face into harmony. The doctors in the States only fix one feature. These differences are huge and what truly matters to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisousx Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 What determines monetary value is what someone is willing to pay for it. As for the principle of charging foreigners more... Well, I would forget about that especially when it comes to your face. Just some practical advice here. Moral code is not mutually exclusive with skill. And I know Korea is the best place to be for Asian faces. That is why I chose to go there, and chose a clinic that heavily markets to foreigners even though they charged more than other clinics in Korea at the time. At the time I went, there was already a recent price increase due to popularity and I was ok with that. I walked out a happy girl, 5 years later I rarely think about my nose anymore. Just happy with what I see in the mirror everyday. My advice to people who are looking at clinics. Go with your gut, surgeon's artistic talent/qualifications and personal references if you can. It's scary how many people (even some of my friends) would cross a good surgeon off their list because the surgery is like $1k more, then they end up with wonky results. I have a list in my head of the cheap boob doctors in LA, the expensive ones and the few doctors with great reputation. The girls who choose the cheap doctor and the expensive doctor sometimes end up with decent breasts and sometimes they're horrendous. But the reputable doctor, while expensive, has yet to produce any complaints or ugly results among my friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurasianbeauty Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 That's just so crazy to me. I mean, how much will it cost you to have to get them done over? You can luck out sometimes, but I'd rather place my bet on known and tested talent and pay the extra thousand. But that's here in LA. No one here is going to bargain for the surgery. The price is the price. But in many foreign countries, if they quote you $7k and all you have is $6k, they will take it. As much as people complain on here that Banobagi sponsors a lot of bloggers, I have yet to see or hear about them botching anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisousx Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Negotiation is a great skill to have! If you can get the same doctor for less than that's awesome. I wish someone told me about that before I flew to Korea. Good luck everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
)
Recommended Posts