jaspsev Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 So I finally got some time today and decided to sit here in a coffee shop in Seoul to write this (weird how i can write so much in one sitting... lol, anyway). I won’t go through so many details (like how the office looks, how the doctor/staff act, etc) as I don’t think it really matters. Also, it is already a long read without the extra details (someday I'll open a blog and add more info if there is interest in this thread)DISCLAIMER (PLEASE READ CAREFULLY AS THIS IS IMPORTANT) No surgery is without risk and no results are guaranteed. Please do your research throughly (other than purse forum check out RealSelf and read some medical website), make your risk/reward analysis and know your limits on how much risk you are willing to take vs the results you want. I make no claim that you will get the same results as I did and all information provided is for educational/informational purposes only,. Proceed with your own better judgement. The nature of being human means there is always unexpected factors involved and mistakes that may happen. Also, I paid for every single thing in the list below. Nothing is free or heavily discounted.Background I am currently a 38 year old asian male this year. My journey began from 10 years ago starting from medication and surgery 2 years ago. I might go for some more procedures in the future so I might update this thread. Overall, I am satisfied and on a certain level, pretty lucky as to how it turned out. Although there were some near-miss here and there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaspsev Posted September 11, 2016 Author Share Posted September 11, 2016 Hair Maintenance Propecia Tablets (Finasteride is the generic name, cut the Propecia into 4 pcs and take 1/4 pc per day) Minoxidil 5% (Hair spray, 2x a day on scalp) Nizoral 2% Shampoo (2-3x a week) Note: Please check with your doctor before taking any medications.FAQ: How long have you been using this regimen? More than 10 years and still counting. How does it work? For people who suffer from MPB (Male Pattern Baldness) what Finasteride does is stop around 90% of hair loss from the hormones itself, Minoxidil promotes accelerated hair growth cycles and Nizoral is just a supplement that helps clear the scalp from the hormone that causes hair loss. Basically, the most important thing is the Finasteride (there is also an alternative drug called Avodart which works the same but I never tried it), even if you have both Minoxidil and Nizoral you will still get bald if you suffer from MPB (which mostly comes from the mother's side of the family). How long before you see any effect? First couple of months I started shedding like mad but I kept on it. After around 6 or so months I noticed the small hairs started growing thicker. By around 12-15 months the hair is stable however the very light hair on the front never regrew back as the hair follicles already died out. So after a year the bald spot on the top of my head is gone while the small hairs on the front grew darker, thicker and longer until it became full grown. What was your Norwood Scale before and after? I was originally a Norwood Scale 3 going to 4 but after a year, went to a Norwood 2. Is it safe? Any side effects? For me, it is ok and working well however according to studies there are side effects to some people. The only thing I noticed is a slight decrease in libido and nothing else. But please check with your doctor as everyone reacts differently. Also the medication can only be used by male, females should not use them. What happens if you miss a dose? Nothing. Just take the next one. Sometimes I miss a dose once or twice a week and it doesn’t matter a long as you don’t stop in a long term basis (like a week or so). If you stop taking it extensively the regrowth hair will revert back and remember, once hair follicles die out they can never grow back! So if you start you better be committed. Satisfaction Level: 8/10 Reason: First, it is a bit of a hassle to take it everyday. Second, you will still lose like 10% of your hair unavoidably throughout time (which is barely noticeable but still annoying but with time, we might find an actual cure). Finally, the amount of hair you shed everyday (due to Minoxidil's accelerated regrowth action) will make people think you own a St Bernard somewhere in the house. But unfortunately there are no alternatives at the moment so this is the best one can settle for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaspsev Posted September 11, 2016 Author Share Posted September 11, 2016 Hair Transplant Clinic: Radha Institue of Hair Transplant Doctor: Dr Radha Rani Website: http://www.hairclinicindia.com/index.html FAQ: How much does it cost/how many grafts do you need? During that time it costs USD $1 per graft and the number of grafts a person need depends not h type of hair you have and amount of coverage. As I am asian my hair is fine but if you have curly, thick hair you probably need less. How long do I need to stay in India for surgery? Approximately 10 days as they take the stitch out on day 7. But it depends on how much coverage you need done. Would you recommend FUT or FUE? It depends on how much hair you need. If you just need a small quantity (like 100-500 for from or eyebrow) then go for FUE. If you need to maximum number of hair you can get then get an FUT. Everyone says do FUE because it is scarless, why did you choose FUT? It is a lie that FUT is scarless. The difference is that the scar is round (remember they take the hair in that circular area so hair does not regrow, therefore you get a scar). So for a small operation it is fine but if you need thousand of hairs it will look like someone shot the back of your head with a bb gun. Also your head has a fixed number of hair so if you want to get maximum follicles strip (FUT) is always better. FUE sometimes kills off some hair in the extraction process. What was the surgery like? How was recovery? Surgery was done under local anaesthesia for about 8 hours. The last few hours was painful because I was awake and I can feel the "hair planting" process then they had to administer more anaesthesia (the thing just go through me like water). The first few days both areas are sore, painful and itchy so need to take painkillers. For a week it was difficult as you have stitches on the back of your head and planted hairs on the front (how the hell do you sleep right) so you need to be careful for at least 10 days until the back of the head heals and the planted hairs are secure. Then after a few weeks the transplanted hairs will fall off (yikes) so you will look odd and bald again for another 3-6 months until they start to regrow again. Full growth will complete in around 1 year. In my case around 90%+ of the grafts took so it was a good result. Why India? Is it safe? A third world country? The doctor I researched does have a good reputation in the hair transplant field (check here profile and clients INTERNATIONAL SOCIETY OF HAIR RESTORATION SURGERY website for details). In terms of skill, price and safety they are top notch. Not a big flashy clinic but it is pretty hygienic and safe. Satisfaction Level: 9/10 Reason: First, the hair looks fine on any direction but I can’t do a slick back style without showing the lower density on the front. However, before surgery the doctor did explained that it will be thinner due to the nature of my hair and it is risky to go beyond a certain density per square inch as it causes loss of hair grafts. Second, the donor area bears an almost invisible scar line so even if it is shaved down even the barber doesn't know there was surgery performed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaspsev Posted September 11, 2016 Author Share Posted September 11, 2016 LASEK Clinic: Dream Eye Centre Doctor: Dr Yung Jae, Hu Website: http://www.hellolasik.com/ENG_SITE/ FAQ: What is your original vision? I have 20/500 and 20/300 with some astigmatism. I can see near objects but anything farther than a feet is blurry so I had to wear glasses all the time. What was your day-to-day like? Day 0: 2 hour testing, 10 minute zapping, went home, slept for a few minutes, woke up, put drops, got bored listening to podcast, slept for some minutes, woke up, put some drops, etc.. Day 1: Pain like pitchforks stabbing into eyes, can barely open, light hurts Day 2: No pain, very blurry vision. Day 3: No pain, moderate burry vision. Day 4: No pain. slight blurry vision (come and go). Day 5: No pain, same as day 4. Day 6: Doctor visit, removed protective contacts Day 7: Slight blurry vision Week 2: Vision test at 20/30 but still a lot of ghosting Week 3: Vision test at 20/20 and 20/22 also still a lot of ghosting Month 1: Ghosting, but slightly better everyday. How long is it expected to recover? Around 4-6 months. In case additional correction is needed the eye centre will do it for free after 6 months for the rest of your life. All you need to pay is the medication drops (around KRW 40,000) from pharmacy. How much does it cost? 1,650,000 KRW for LASEK (aka PRK), no idea about LASIK. What is the difference between LASIK and LASEK? LASIK has faster recovery but leaves something similar to a lid (or best put, a manhole cover) sitting on top of your eye. and it never closes up so you can see the next day LASEK (-LASEK or PRK) removes the entire lid and you need to regrow the entire cover so it takes up to 6 months to recover. LASIK or LASEK, which one is better? It depends on your priorities, if you are active in contact sports, have kids who might poke your eye or know your risk factor on having something dislodge the lid in the future then go for LASEK. Even being rear ended in a vehicle accident has the risk of dislodging the lid. LASIK/LASEK and Double Eyelid Surgery? It is most recommended you do LASIK/LASEK first because there is a risk that the mechanism that keeps your eyes open during surgery will affect your DES. If you do DES first then you need wait a month before doing LASIK/LASEK. How about side effects? Is it safe? As with any surgery, there are always risks. Satisfaction Level: 8/10 Reason: Still healing. Although I don't need glasses to function now reading is still difficult due to ghosting and dry eyes. If I get perfect vision within 6 months then I'll change it to a 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaspsev Posted September 11, 2016 Author Share Posted September 11, 2016 Primary Rhinoplasty, Chin Implant and Neck Liposuction + Botox Clinic: MVP Plastic Surgery Doctor: Dr Seo Website: http://mvpps.com/main/main.asp FAQ: What are your goals? As I was planning to get both nose and chin fixed together I was unable to determine how big/small both should be so I only asked the doctor to make it balanced (as we ere reviewing the CT scan the chin was more receded than i though so there were some limitations). Initially it was supposed to be a sliding genioplasty however I had issues with intubation during General Anaesthesia so had to change it to silicon implant under Local Anaesthesia (remember the part about risk during surgery? this is one of them). What are your goals? As I was planning to get both nose and chin fixed together I was unable to determine how big/small both should be so I only asked the doctor to make it balanced (as we ere reviewing the CT scan the chin was more receded than i though so there were some limitations). Initially it was supposed to be a sliding genioplasty however I had issues with intubation during General Anaesthesia so had to change it to silicon implant under Local Anaesthesia (remember the part about risk during surgery? this is one of them). Why did you pick MVP? After consultation I think the doc is pretty much spot on as to my goals. Basically, my line of thinking is that I can meet 10 doctors with nice paper certificates hanging on the hallway on fancy counters but do I really know who is better? You can only trust your instinct and take previous customers as a reference, if in doubt then don't go for it. Do they speak English? There is an in-house translator (Mindy who is covering for Ellen) who took really good care of me. Even during surgery she was there translating/explaining what they were doing. Any tips on getting a good price? Negotiate. You have to work on it (don't waste their time, get on their good side, be polite, etc). Don't expect local pricing since we are not locals but do know that you can get somewhere between the low en of the foreigner price to the high end of the local price if you play your cards right. If you hit a price and can't get it lower you can ask for some small "extras" before closing the deal (like i got botox for free). I sent my pic and they are so expensive? Depending on the case, most clinics will drop you the highest price as they haven't seen your CT scan and chances are don't know how complicated the case is as they never saw you in person and don't know how many surgery you will take. Just consider that price as the maximum, less if you have more procedures. How much does it cost? Unfortunately, I will no longer disclose the amount paid as each person’s case is different in terms of complexity, number of procedures, etc. It is better you make your own due diligence by comparing from different clinics (there are more than 20 in walking distance from each other) after getting your face-to-face consultation but do remember, going for the cheapest for the sake of it being cheap and ended needing a revision will cost a LOT more. How was after care? It was good, better than I expected. Regular visits and never had any issues. I popped in twice to check on some concerns and they were very accommodating, even got to the doctor to check on me during his lunchtime. How was the consultation? The doctor took time to understand what you need. If you say you don’t want silicon, he won’t push it but he tells you the limit on what he can do and alternatives. I think it is important that the doctor puts you in a realistic view on the results, not just agree to whatever you want even if it unrealistic (and yes, I tried an unrealistic request which he said he cannot do). Would you recommend this clinic? I would BUT it depends on your case. There isn’t a doctor who can do everything and get it all right as they each specialise on a specific look/case. You need to check if the doctor can do what you want up to your satisfaction. My nose and your nose have different base/texture/design, it will not exactly come out the same after surgery. Should I hire a medical agency/translator? You can if you have money to burn for someone who will drive you around town. Once you get to a clinic the rest of the clinics are pretty much 20 steps aways from each other. Transport options are so many here like subways, taxis, uber, etc that it really isn't needed. The only time you need to hire a translator is like with clinics like Trend who doesn't have any english speaker. Before and After? Rhinoplasty - http://imgur.com/a/dU39L Chin Implant+Neck Lipo+Threading - still healing, to be added on a later date. Botox (Jaw) - to be added later date Satisfaction Level: 8/10 Reason: Still healing. Only time can tell how the final outcome will look but so far so good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaspsev Posted September 11, 2016 Author Share Posted September 11, 2016 reserved for future use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gats Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Wow, that's one epic coffee shop sitting, great write up! I'm glad to hear your rhino went well. Given your title, I was wondering if you felt you faced anything as a guy in this journey (from consult to post surgery care) that's not usually mentioned in write ups since most reviews are from females here? For example, for your consults, do you feel any of the clinics wanted to feminize your face? Seeing before/after pics from many places, it does seem some places go for a certain look that's applied to both sexes. Did you experience that or do you think most of them understood what you wanted? Do you think you received the same level of care post-surgery as reviews you've read from females? Did you go to Man & Nature since they specialize in guys? Any places you would recommend guys to avoid going to? If you have anything else you think that's specific to guys that you think they should know before going into this, please share. That actually would make for a pretty good blog since all Korean PS blogs are from females it seems. BTW did you consider doing your eyes and nose in this same trip just to get everything over with? Or did your LASEK prevent you from doing your eyes this trip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaspsev Posted September 11, 2016 Author Share Posted September 11, 2016 Yea, I guess i was freakin really mad yesterday and had to vent. Well, since I am going to vent might as well do something constructive. Not really, when i arrived there are also korean men waiting in the lobby (not bandage so probably consult) and when I went in to consult with Dr Seo, he asked what is the problem and what do I want. It isn't like he is telling me what needs to be done more on I will tell him I want a higher/better nose with no bump then he will put 2 q-tips and push the nose up and say "does this look high enough to you or do you want higher?", take a ruler and make a line, draw on the pc monitor of my CT to illustrate. When I asked if DES looks better on me or not he took a hard look for a minute then said "no, better no DES". But then I did notice that they have certain korean standards on what is considered as good looking for men and women (and korean men do have more softer/somewhat feminine features than other races in most cases. This is one advantage of being asian, if you want a more korean look it is easier for them to create. If you want specific features which they normally don't do it becomes much harder i think since they don't normally do it routinely. When I was satisfied with the doctor I went straight to price negotiation with the consultant and translator. I can't exactly tell if they are the sae level of care post-surgery but they are pretty much standard for clients regardless of gender as I also did get 4 desweill treatments with laser during the 1 week rhinoplasty and today I am going to get the intramural stitches out. Also they did say I can come by anytime however, i really hate getting the deswell injections (needles... ugh). Nope, didn't visit Man and Nature but I did consider it that if the consult was mediocre i might visit some clinics along the area (JW, Dream, Baum, Trend, etc and let me tell you those places look like expensive hotels outside) however since the consult better than I expected I don't this there is a point to go check around. In terms of place not to go to, I don't know also as I never met anyone or seen anything to point out such issues. But I think it is still best as foreigners we go for those more well-known clinics, there are a bunch of cheap (as in really ridiculously cheap like 1.0 - 1.5m DES), never-heard of clinics but who knows how the results are? Can't do eyes for 6 months after LASEK. During surgery we had to ask the nurse to put moisturizer drops and tape my eyes shut (instruction from eye doctor as eyes get dry during anaesthesia or sometimes open if unconcious and if you had LASEK, excessive dry eyes will be disastrous). I was however tempted to sneak it in but on the other hand, it would be bad to have bad eyesight (if something goes wrong) for the next 6 months and have to return to fix it again and wait another 6 months to recover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erichyung Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 Teium is around that price DES but everyone says its expensive lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hcolumbus Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 Great post, Jaspsev! It truly is insightful to learn about your experience and thorough planning. Just wondering what this "DES" that you guys are talking about mean? Also, regarding the CT scan, do you have to pay for it when consulting? I was thinking perhaps of buying a copy of my CT scan in the first clinic if I'm not satisfied with the clinic and use it for future reference with the other clinics to save time (and perhaps money) when consulting. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twocupcakes Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 Double eyelid surgery. CAT scans are usually free if they're on-site; some smaller clinics might not have their own machines and will send you somewhere else to get it. However, if you want a copy of your scan, they might charge you for it. But, despite the cost, this is probably the best option. The reason why Western doctors don't order CAT scans for everything, especially for young people, is because the patient is exposed to radiation, many, many times more than a regular x-ray, which could increase the risk of cancer. You don't really want to be doing five of them on the same day. And is the reason why Man and Nature is always mentioned just because it was featured in the Wall Street Journal? Sort of like the Charles Lee effect? I don't think their results are very good. There are better male-oriented clinics out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freshlook Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 Thank you so much for your detailed review jaspsev! I am a male from Europe and i am considering S.Korea for facial contouring but my fear is that doctors have no much experience working with western faces. What is your opinion about it? Have you seen any western male patient? Thank you in regard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erichyung Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 Such as? It was the first male-only clinic in korea. There seem to be other male clinics like real for men PS and all but they don't seem very good either. Their doctor believes in natural subtle results, not the ullzang results that many clinics on purseblog give. If you look at their eye surgery its very very natural, although not incredibly handsome I must admit. If you know a variety of male-oriented clinics then you're gonna have to speak up because many males here are hard-pressed to find a male-specialized/only surgeon in Korea. Their models do not look one bit plastic and that is their philosophy. And Cat Scans are about 80-100 dollars if you want to take the hardcopy. Jasp, around how much did you pay? the aftercare sounds good (deswelling treatments etc) Since it's just a tip augmentation and minor hump shaving it must have been really cheap right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erichyung Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 From what i've seen, you will get a more asian-flavored pretty boy face. If you're looking for a masculine superman look this may not be for you. Sort of like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaspsev Posted September 13, 2016 Author Share Posted September 13, 2016 @FreshLook I have not noticed any western clients when I was there but if it is facial contouring, in my opinion, it shouldn't be an issue as long as the doctor is well-versed in bone cutting techniques. Cutting bones are much more precise and specific compared to designing a nose/eyes. @Hcolumbus Yes it is best to even buy a copy of the CT instead of getting nukes every consultation. After you finish your surgery (assuming you went ahead to a certain clinic and such) you can ask them for a copy of the final one for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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