isotope360 Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 Hi, I wanted to contribute to this forum as there doesn't seem to be a lot of updated information and I think that the more information we put out there for others, the better.Disclaimer: I am not a promoter or broker, I am just sharing info as it may help others who are looking for the same procedures as I am.About me: I am living in South Korea therefore, I am able to make these hospital visits fairly easily. I am Asian and want my upward, slanted, uneven eyes to be more "dolly" like, or at least more like a half-moon shape and even in size and shape. I am in my mid-twenties and have undergone non-incisional eyelid surgery in a different country 6 years ago but it did not last.Resources: I have used purseforum, soyoung, and Naver Cafe to narrow down my list of hospitals and doctors. I have noticed that the "popular" hospitals on purseforum is different from what is popular on Naver Cafe. However, the blacklist on both sites remain the same. Think of Naver Cafe as something like Reddit where local Koreans share information and news. Plastic surgery is a big topic on there and I have messaged local Koreans about where they have visited after seeing their post-op photos.Procedures that I inquired about: incisional double eyelid surgery with in/out crease lateral canthoplasty lower canthoplasty My list: MVP* ITEM*** Teuim* Caramel** Premier** *: mentioned on purseforum **: mentioned on Naver **: mentioned on Naver and purseforum I have only visited the first 2 clinics but will visit the rest next week. Here is my experience and what the doctor and consultants have told me:MVP - Dr. Seo arrive and tell them you're here for an appointment fill out consultation form (name, address, why you're here, etc.) take photos of your face consult with doctor consult with consultant There is English speaking staff available here. There are a lot of Chinese patients and few local Koreans from when I came to the hospital. Consultation with Dr. Seo: He looked at the photos that were taken and he offered some recommendations. In my case, it was double eyelid incisional, lower canthoplasty and epi. He showed me the crease he thinks would look best on me and how my eyes would look if I had lower canthoplasty. He was also thorough in his explanation as to why he thinks I epi would benefit me but he says that this is completely optional and not necessary. I also brought in photos to show him my "ideal" result, and noting that it is not possible to get the exact results as I found in the photos but at least it was to give him an idea. He understood and remained with his original recommendations for what procedures I should get. The consultation with the doctor lasted half an hour. Dr. Seo did not pressure me to do any procedures that were not necessary but I told him that the three procedures (listed above) were my main concerns. He was soft spoken and detailed, and answered my questions. Consultation with Consultant After meeting with the doctor, I met with A***, the person who I would be negotiating prices with and such. She was professional and explained to me the possible side effects of the procedure in terms of appearances. To give you an idea, she mentioned how my two eyes were different shapes and to even them out, may result in having the space between my eyes and eyebrows be higher/lower on one side than the other. She also mentioned that the slant on my eyes are on different levels on each eye (one more slanted than the other) and so to make sure that I knew and understood that with these procedures, the doctor may pay more attention to one area of one specific eye for these reasons. I thought this was very informative as these were things I have never considered. Yay or Nay? Disclaimer: yay or nay is based on my personal experience with the consultation, doctor's style and overall feeling I got from the consultation. NOT on whether I think the hospital is good, or not. Would I choose this hospital? - NayReasons: Although the doctor was informative, I looked at their before and after photos and was not entirely impressed. Their results did not align with what I wanted but I decided to visit here anyways because it was so popular amongst PF members on here. Dr. Seo was very patient and of course, confident to be able to carry the procedure through well. However, his style seems conservative as I want to have a more "natural dramatic result". Another reason was that I felt like I was "just another client". I don't expect to be treated like royalty but I just didn't feel like there was a connection between me and the hospital staff. Overall, I did not have the positive "OMG YES IT IS THIS HOSPITAL THAT I MUST DO IT AT!" feeling that I was hoping to get. They quoted me a price and also informed me of the 10% VAT tax. I tried to negotiate and they were able to lower it down a little bit but in general, I was not completely satisfied with the overall experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isotope360 Posted November 23, 2019 Author Share Posted November 23, 2019 ITEM - Dr. Jin Sung Kim told them I had an appointment consultation with consultant on what I wanted done consultation with Dr. Kim consultation with consultant Consultation with Consultant, S**** S*** (who I will refer to as S), attended to me right away when I arrived and she made the experience completely enjoyable. She speaks English quite fluently too. I told her the procedures I wanted and she showed me previous patient photos so that I can get an idea of what the results may look like. I showed her the photos that I have brought in and what I hoped to achieve, reciting the "dolly eyes, wider, more even, bigger" spiel that I did at MVP. She explained that my skin is thick and also agreed on the procedures I have told her about. She was patient and answered all of my questions before I met with Dr. Kim. Because I have seen Dr. jung's name float around here for ITEM plastic surgery, I asked her why she recommended me Dr. Kim and not Dr. jung. She told me that because of the result that I was hoping for, Dr. Kim and his style would be more aligned with what I wanted. Although a lot of PF members on here have mentioned Dr. Jung for eyes, many local Koreans have mentioned Dr. Kim for eyes, including lower and lateral canthoplasty. So when S recommended Dr. Kim to me, I was pleasantly surprised but felt like my concerns and ideal result were really being taken into consideration of which was one of the selling points for me.Consultation with Dr. Kim My meeting with the doctor was around 15-20 minutes as S had already answered the bulk of my questions. Dr. Kim's suggestions for what procedures I should get were the same as what were mentioned at MVP and from S. The good news was, they were the exact three surgeries that I wanted! S measured the width of my eyes to ensure that I did not need epicanthoplasty done, as I told them it was not a procedure I would like to get due to scarring. Dr. Kim measured how much room i had for canthoplasty with a q-tip, showing me the potential end result if he lowered my eyes. It was hard for him to completely show me what lateral canthoplasty would look like on my eyes because that requires actual cutting skin and all he could do was tug gently on the ends of my eyes as a demonstration. He recommended 7mm of crease height, in/out crease and showed me what that would look like on my eyes with his metal medical tweezer apparatus thing. I was completely satisfied because he was able to create the perfect crease height for me in the first try! Dr. Kim's English is very good and easily understandable. S was with me just in case translation was needed (but it was not). He was patient, answered all of my questions and did not pressure me into doing anything unnecessary. However, I did wish that they would tell me the potential side effects, appearance-wise, like MVP did.Consultation with Consultant, S, After Meeting with Dr. Kim: I asked her about the price and because I was living in Korea and found the clinic on my own, she gave me a very reasonable price. However, i was able to negotiate it by a VERY small amount (hardly a difference, really). Regardless, I felt like the price was reasonable after comparing it to MVP. S made my experience very positive. She shared her expertise and she didn't make me feel like "just another client". I asked about aftercare, potential side effects, and how one should prepare for the surgery. She also shared some of her experiences working with other patients to help me have a better understanding of how surgeries go and how the results may vary. I found this to be very helpful as I didn't have a benchmark to go off of. Overall, I am considering iTEM as my hospital of choice. However, I will be visiting other hospitals next week so my opinion may change. Again, ITEM is known amongst both locals and overseas patients so I do have high hopes for this one. Stay tuned on this thread for more updates! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bossam Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 Hi @istope360, I was actually planning to consult Dr Jung from Item and Dr Seo from MVP.... I wonder what is Dr Jung specialty for des.. Did the consultant mention? My other options are dream, wannabe, Ive and maybe shinseung. list still not 100percent solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isotope360 Posted November 24, 2019 Author Share Posted November 24, 2019 Dr. Jung is great for incisional DES as he makes it very natural. However, the consultant has told me that his style is almost "too" natural where his canthoplasty surgeries make little difference compared to Dr. Kim. I spoke to S on the phone prior to coming in for the consultation and told her what I wanted done, and this is what she has told me. I also showed her the photos of my "ideal" result and she cross-referenced them with 1 month post-op photos of Dr. kim's patients when I went to the hospital. So if you want the best natural result for DES, then Dr. Jung, but if you want best natural yet dramatic result (think ulzzang but not that extreme because they also use photoshop to enhance their looks), go with Dr. Kim. I have seen other posts you have made on PF and wanted to answer them while I am here Peak season for ITEM is December - February. Think about the school holidays that they have in Korea, as well as Lunar New Year and it is more ideal for patients to have surgery in winter time. Let me know if you have any other questions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rengo Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Have you heard anything about Dr. Lee Jin Hwa? I saw his work online a couple weeks ago and the results were natural but exactly what I wanted. however I dont really see much about him compared to Dr.Kim. Do you mind me asking how much they quoted for you too? I got a rough estimate via Whatsapp for partial incision eyelid but I had a budget for how much id like to spend and Im afraid that as soon as i get there, they will rocket in price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isotope360 Posted December 1, 2019 Author Share Posted December 1, 2019 This doctor is mostly known to have done work on Chinese patients but not Korean or other foreign patients so there is not much information that I have about them. They quoted me around 4,000,000KRW. I am in the process of trying to negotiate further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isotope360 Posted December 1, 2019 Author Share Posted December 1, 2019 So I finally went to Caramel Plastic Surgery and Teuim Plastic Surgery.Caramel - Dr. Kang Caramel was the hospital that some local Koreans have told me about through Naver Cafe. They do a lot of eye surgeries here and the clinic is not big but not small either. Consultation with Consultant (forgot name) I had an appointment but had to wait 30 minutes because there were a lot of people getting consultations. I only saw 3 other Koreans in the waiting room with me so I assumed they were having their consultations before me. The consultant met with me first and asked what I wanted. Again, same spiel as my above posts (double eyelid, canthoplasty, blah blah). She showed me pictures of patients that had similar eyes to me in terms of how high my slant was and size of eyes. The pictures were quite unnatural looking because they REALLY make it look two times bigger. Imagine these are your eyes: "o.o" and this is the results they have shown me "O.O". It definitely looked like they had plastic surgery and I didn't want that aesthetic. The consultant was nice and professional HOWEVER English was super limited and this was my main concern throughout the consultation.Consultation with Dr. Kang Dr. Kang can speak English quite well and he is quite nice and funny too! He made some creases for me and told me what he liked and recommended. I asked him how much mm he would cut for double eyelid and canthoplasty and he says it's hard for him to tell at this point. What REALLY surprised me was when he mentioned he thinks I need ptosis correction. The two other hospitals I went to (MVP and ITEM) suggested that I didn't need it, even after I had confirmed with them if I needed it or not. Dr. Kang then told me he would try his best to make the eyes as even as possible because my eyes are different angles and sizes. He also said he will try to make the maximum cuts that the space in my eyes would allow for a good result. i also inquired about epicanthoplasty to see what he would say but he mentioned that it was something that I didn't need. So Dr. Kang recommended me four procedures: revision incisional double eyelid in/out crease ptosis correction lateral canthoplasty lower canthoplasty No side effects, and 80 minutes was the surgery time. Local and sleeping anesthesia.Consultation with Consultant, after meeting with Dr. Kang After speaking with Dr. Kang, I met with the consultant again and we talked about prices. They quoted me a lesser amount than MVP or ITEM and it was a better deal if I paid in cash. I didn't have enough time to speak with the consultant more but i was able to get their kakaotalk to message them in case I had more questions.Overall Impressions The price was really appealing as it was cheaper however, price tells; and for four procedures too?! I was a bit skeptical because only this hospital mentioned ptosis. There was also a language barrier and not being able to understand them in the operating room even if the doctor speaks English was not a risk I wanted to take. The consultant also only showed me 2 pictures of their closest result to my eyes which wasn't really convincing either. However, the results I have seen from other Koreans on Naver were so good that I was really on the fence about this hospital and ITEM. Did I choose this hospital? Stay tuned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isotope360 Posted December 1, 2019 Author Share Posted December 1, 2019 Teuim Plastic Surgery I kept seeing this hospital on PF so I decided to check it out. Dr. Seo has done a lot of research on canthoplasty surgeries and the waiting area in the hospital has his publications as proof of his expertise. There were few English speaking staff but the doctor speaks English fluently although he will start off with Korean. There were no other people waiting when I arrived in the waiting room and I had waited for awhile before I could see the doctor.Consultation with Dr. Seo I told him what I wanted and he gave me his recommendations (incisional, in/out crease, etc.). He also recommended epicanthoplasty to enlarge my eyes on the inner corners and did agree with lower canthoplasty. He also mentioned that lateral canthoplasty would have little effect for me due to the space I had available. I asked Dr. Seo about ptosis correction to which he said I didn't need it. I also asked about the differing eye shapes and angles that I had and how the distance between my eyes and eyebrows may be uneven due to incisional double eyelid surgery. I was basically voicing my concerns that were brought up by MVP and Caramel. Dr. Seo checked my eyes and even analyzed my eyebrows (lol) and said that because it is natural for people to have a lower eyebrow than the other, the difference would not be noticeable. He also confirmed that I did not need ptosis. I asked about surgery time and anesthesia and it was going to be a 3 hour surgery with local and sleeping anesthesia. It was the longest surgery that was estimated but the breakdown was: 2 hours for DES and epicanthoplasty (he is very meticulous) and 1 hour for canthoplasty. I have been to so many hospitals at this point that I was really exhausted and decided to not ask anymore questions.Consultation with Consultant I met with a consultant who spoke little English and like many have mentioned, they quoted me a price that was higher than the 3 other hospitals I have visited. I didn't even bother trying to negotiate a price because I knew that it would not make a difference and I already didn't feel like Teuim was the place for me to my surgery done. No patient photos were shown to me by the consultant either which I was a little surprised about. Of course I saw his publications however, I was hoping for more detailed photos of potential results. The consultant was really nice and professional and gave me a breakdown of the prices. I promptly left after that, having been too tired after waiting for my appointments and running around Gangnam.Overall Impressions The doctor and staff are very professional and Dr. Seo for sure knows what he is doing. He pointed out some smaller details that I had asked about during our consultation in regards to facial muscle functionality. However, his style is conservative, almost TOO natural which did not fit with the aesthetic I was going for. I was also disappointed that the hospital staff spoke little English. They spoke enough for you to get by but not enough where I would be comfortable having them take charge of my surgery and after care. If you are very paranoid about having canthoplasty done by a surgeon who takes into consideration functionality and feasibility, then Dr. Seo is perfect. However, if you want to have obvious results that don't look too natural, then perhaps another hospital may be a better consideration. Overall, Dr. Seo's style was a bit more conservative than I had hoped.Yay or nay? - nay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isotope360 Posted December 1, 2019 Author Share Posted December 1, 2019 I have decided to go with ITEM Plastic Surgery with Dr. Kim for my eye surgery in January. I did not end up visiting Premier due to them not having English speaking staff at all so a larger language barrier existed and I already knew in my heart that I wanted to go with ITEM. Here are the factors that made me choose ITEM over the other 3 hospitals: English consultant available Known amongst local Koreans and foreigners (China, Vietnam, Singapore, Thailand, etc.) Reviews from Soyoung and Naver Pirce Expertise and patient photos provided by hospital English consultant available The consultant constantly reminded me that she wanted to be there during the date of my surgery so that not only can she be there to interpret, but to also walk me through the surgery and aftercare process as well. She is available on kakaotalk and has called me a few times to make sure that everything was in order prior to my initial appointment. I have to be honest and say that this is one of the main points as to why I chose this hospital. I didn't want to have a language barrier in the operating room and have something go wrong and have things lost in translation. I already had a mishap at a doctor's office because things were lost in translation and after that experience, I knew I needed someone who knew what they were doing and staff who spoke English, not just the doctor.Known Amongst Locals and Foreigners MVP is known amongst the PF community, Caramel and Premier is known amongst the local Korean community, Teuim is known amongst the PF community but ITEM is known amongst PF, Soyoung and local Koreans. This is telling of how popular the hospital is. The hospital has a lot of staff and the doctors constantly travel to Singapore for consultations and surgeries. My consultant has told me of the countries that patients she has worked with has come from but that was only mentioned in passing due to a comment I made about after care.Reviews from Soyoung and Naver The hospital and Dr. Kim are discreetly mentioned on Naver forums (by law, you are not allowed to post a hospital's name or doctor's name on these Korean forums due to defamation laws). I have looked into Soyoung as well and didn't bother reading too many of their text reviews, knowing that there could be brokers. Rather, I saw countless before and after photos and Dr. Kim's style aligned with the style I am going after. It also turns out from my research on this site that a lot of Chinese patients go to Dr. Kim for nose surgery as well.Price ITEM's quote was not the cheapest, nor was it the highest either. However, as my friend puts it, "price tells". Although other hospitals have given me really appealing prices, this hospital's prices seems average and it didn't set off any alarms for me.Expertise and Patient Photos The consultant and the doctor really impressed me with their knowledge. They were able to tell me approximate measurements as to how much they can cut and their reasoning behind it. They also showed me a lot of photos that Dr. Kim specifically has done, which speaks to his style and results as well. Other hospitals were not able to show me post-op photos like ITEM has. And just to note, these photos are not available on their site, you would have to see a consultant in person as they will show it to you on their computers. Caramel also showed me picturs but it was only 2 that they have shown me. i have booked my deposit to secure my surgery date (300,000KRW) and I will be following up with ITEM and their consultant on extra precautions I should take before surgery and design objectives of my eyes. If you have any questions, PM me or just post a reply. I hope this information will help SOMEONE, especially if they're not in Korea. Also, peak season is December - February as confirmed by Dr. Seo from Teuim! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rengo Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 @Isotope360 Thank you so much for your informative posts. 4mil KRW for everything at ITEM? I read on another post that it’s hard to negotiate with them. How was that process like for you? Good Luck and hoping you will post more about your surgery in January Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isotope360 Posted December 1, 2019 Author Share Posted December 1, 2019 I would like to note that I got the doctor's name mixed up in this post. It is actually Dr. Kwon, not Dr. Seo. Dr. Seo is from MVP and Dr. Kwon is from Teuim. Sorry for the confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isotope360 Posted December 1, 2019 Author Share Posted December 1, 2019 It is definitely hard to negotiate with them but I think I came in with a positive attitude and they liked my vibe, maybe they were willing to have a civil conversation with me about prices? Also, I live in Korea and I pay tax here so I think that was also a factor; as I am not a tourist and NOT paying Korean taxes lol Honestly, I just kept asking them to give me the lowest price they can possible and I told them to take into consideration my living situation and how I am contributing to the taxes here. And thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bossam Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 Hi @Isotope360 4million won for ptosis, lateral cantho, lower cantho and incisional des? Do you have Kakao id? Can share your b&a? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isotope360 Posted December 7, 2019 Author Share Posted December 7, 2019 I have not gotten my surgery done yet so I have no photos to share. Also, it is around 4 million KRW for the three surgeries: DES incisional, lateral and lower canthoplasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bossam Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 Hi @Isotope360, When are you planning to do your surgery? i am planning on lst week of feb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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