DES in Sydney, Australia

[ivyheart]

I 100% agree, if I'm going to go through all of that I definitely want it to last. I've briefly looked into a few clinics in the past and I know exactly what you mean by none of the B&As looking 100% right compared to photos of those who have gotten the procedure done overseas. It wasn't until I saw yours and looked into Dr. Leo Kim, that I felt a bit more confident about having the procedure done in Australia (also felt iffy about getting it done overseas). As I'm from Adelaide, I need to figure out how many days I would need to spend in Sydney and how much time I would need to take off work etc. I just have some questions:
- Do they usually take the sutures out 6 days after or is it just dependent on the person? And when do they want you to return for a check up after the sutures have been taken out.
- Also kinda of a silly question but do you have normal lid closure now (no lagophthalmos?) as thats something I've always been worried about with DES and I've also thought whether it can damage the glands in your eyes causing dry eyes as well
- Does the clinic that you went to offer payment plans?
Sorry for all the questions, I haven't previous had much time to look into this seriously until recently spending more time at home.

 

[looseygoosey]

All good with the questions - I'm here to help and know that there's a lack of info around Australian surgeons on DES, which is why I posted this whole review!

It'll never compare, I think, in terms of the best result from Korea vs best result from Australia, since Korean surgeons just get more experience in general. That's still not to say that it'll be better to get it done in Korea for all the mentioned concerns because foreigners (non-Koreans) are always going to feel a level of uncertainty - some more than others (like you and me).

I can't answer for certain and I definitely think it's worth emailing Dr Kim/the clinic those questions since I can't answer them 100% for you but I can tell you what he told me so hopefully this helps.

- Interstate patients: With special cases, Dr Kim will do a video consultation and then a face to face one the same day of surgery depending on how the video consultation goes. Again, like I mentioned, he needs to feel like you're 100% on-board with his vision before he decides to perform the surgery. Please note also, you may still need to pay the initial consultation fee and video consultation will obviously still hard to judge the anatomy of your eye without physically seeing you.
I think this will also be the case for after your surgery - given you're interstate, you can voice that you won't be able to keep travelling back and forth for check-up's, Dr Kim is really flexible.
The pattern for me was 1 week after stitches were out, then 2 weeks after that (1 month after surgery) and now we're booked for June (3 month post-op).

- Taking out sutures: I'd say 6-7 days. I honestly think that's just the normal time-frame in general. My 97 YO grandma had to get 12 stitches near her eye and also took those out in about 6-7 days.

- Normal lid closure: From my pics, it looks like after the 3rd day, my right eye was able to close without an issue. I haven't noticed this as a problem but checked now, and it closes fine. Dr Kim did also mention this in the consultation and that he avoids cutting too much skin off to prevent the eye from not closing properly. I think that is obviously dependent also on the amount of swelling you'll have post-op.

- Payment Plans: Definitely need to ask Dr Kim about that, I wasn't informed of that when I went.

I did also ask heaps of questions in my first email to the clinic. I think it's important to do so especially since you're paying for the initial consultation so if they don't tick your prerequisites, you won't need to waste your money and time (that was my mentality going in so I didn't feel bad bombarding them with questions).

Let me know if you have any more questions/concerns

 

[sammyx91]

looseygoosey said: ↑

All good with the questions - I'm here to help and know that there's a lack of info around Australian surgeons on DES, which is why I posted this whole review!

It'll never compare, I think, in terms of the best result from Korea vs best result from Australia, since Korean surgeons just get more experience in general. That's still not to say that it'll be better to get it done in Korea for all the mentioned concerns because foreigners (non-Koreans) are always going to feel a level of uncertainty - some more than others (like you and me).

I can't answer for certain and I definitely think it's worth emailing Dr Kim/the clinic those questions since I can't answer them 100% for you but I can tell you what he told me so hopefully this helps.

- Interstate patients: With special cases, Dr Kim will do a video consultation and then a face to face one the same day of surgery depending on how the video consultation goes. Again, like I mentioned, he needs to feel like you're 100% on-board with his vision before he decides to perform the surgery. Please note also, you may still need to pay the initial consultation fee and video consultation will obviously still hard to judge the anatomy of your eye without physically seeing you.
I think this will also be the case for after your surgery - given you're interstate, you can voice that you won't be able to keep travelling back and forth for check-up's, Dr Kim is really flexible.
The pattern for me was 1 week after stitches were out, then 2 weeks after that (1 month after surgery) and now we're booked for June (3 month post-op).

- Taking out sutures: I'd say 6-7 days. I honestly think that's just the normal time-frame in general. My 97 YO grandma had to get 12 stitches near her eye and also took those out in about 6-7 days.

- Normal lid closure: From my pics, it looks like after the 3rd day, my right eye was able to close without an issue. I haven't noticed this as a problem but checked now, and it closes fine. Dr Kim did also mention this in the consultation and that he avoids cutting too much skin off to prevent the eye from not closing properly. I think that is obviously dependent also on the amount of swelling you'll have post-op.

- Payment Plans: Definitely need to ask Dr Kim about that, I wasn't informed of that when I went.

I did also ask heaps of questions in my first email to the clinic. I think it's important to do so especially since you're paying for the initial consultation so if they don't tick your prerequisites, you won't need to waste your money and time (that was my mentality going in so I didn't feel bad bombarding them with questions).

Let me know if you have any more questions/concerns

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Hi
How much time off did you take after the surgery?

 

[looseygoosey]

Hey!

I took 1.5 weeks off work (as sick leave - which should be acceptable at all workplaces if you tell them you have a personal surgery). I was really open at work though about the surgery so I wasn’t really worried to look more swollen going back to work. Dr Kim recommends 2 weeks before returning to work/school and should be willing to write you a dr cert for that amount of time.

 

[sammyx91]

Hi

looseygoosey said: ↑

Hi All,

Long time lurker, first time posting my experience. Here is my experience to date with DES in Australia.

I decided to give back to this great community that has given me so much info and prepped me to start my own journey.

DES in Australia is definitely something not spoken about heaps (if at all) and here is my experience.

Tried my best to note everything down day by day, but please forgive me for any errors in the below.

NOTE: all prices quoted here will be subject to change person to person.

B&A's to follow this long post.

About me:

- Asian-Australian and in my 20’s

- I was a smoker (~6 cigarettes a day)

- Knew about DES since high school (kpop phase) but never really wanted it then. Tried eyelid glue and it felt really uncomfortable so I never wanted to use tape or glue again.

- As time passed and eyelash extensions etc came into fashion, I started to notice my eyes were super small in photos.

- I had hooded lids, but when my eyes were open and looking straight it would look monolidded. (Attached are photos)

- Started researching eyelid tapes and how you could “train” your eyelids to be double by tape. Found one I could wear and it wouldn’t be obvious - this was end of 2017

- Knowing the possible risks of training my eyelids and using tape, I still decided to do it.

- Skin became loose after 2 years of wearing it literally 24/7 and my eyelids still weren’t trained completely and I would still have to wear it at night & sometimes during the day.

- Researched through RealSelf & PurseBlog for Korean and Aus surgeons (I’ll put my top clinics below too)

- Personally couldn’t risk going to Korea due to all the horror stories everywhere about botched jobs and ghost doctors and generally felt unsafe to do surgery in a foreign country where I had no proper medical insurance or security.

- Also, I don’t strive for complete symmetry but understand why others do - we pay good money and being symmetrical is a fair expectation to have. I just know that as humans, it is normal to have slight asymmetry and am totally fine with this.

- All I don’t want is bad scarring.


Top Korean clinics I found:

- MVP (not anymore though after subsequent reviews here after I decided on surgery in Syd)

- ITEM (still think this is a plausible option)

- TEIUM (longer recovery times)

- UVOM (this was after my decision but was still interested in Korean clinics)


Top Sydney/Melb clinics I found:

- Dr Leo Kim @ PS Derm (Syd) - this is the one I went with

- Ellis Choy @ Zilver (Syd)

- Restore Cosmetic Surgery (Melb) —> NOTE: he does NOT have FRACS which is the proper qualification for plastic surgery in Australia

- Eastern Plastic Surgery (Melb)


Decision:

- Initially, I was very set on Ellis Choy due to the huge amount of positive reviews and b&a’s on his RealSelf profile.

- Except there was just something about those b&a’s that didn’t really fit with my own goals.

- Personally, I think it was the creases I saw weren’t even and just didn’t seem right to me. (Honestly, don’t know why, it just mainly a feeling of it not being the right thing for me)

- Saw a lot of Dr Kim’s in Sydney (Andrew Kim & Peter Kim in Chatswood) who had TERRIBLE reviews. I don’t think Dr Andrew Kim is in business anymore, but Dr Peter Kim is though I think.

- Finally stumbled on Dr Leo Kim, who was in Sydney CBD.

- Although he had significantly less b&a’s and reviews, he had the right qualifications (FRACS) AND he had experience in Korea. The b&a’s I saw definitely already gave me enough confidence already + the google reviews and RealSelf reviews.

- This one just felt “right”.

- I still slept on this for months before finally discussing it with my friend and we bit the bullet and booked in the consultation.


1st Consultation:

- I went with my friend who also wanted DES. Dr Kim focused on one first and then moved onto the other after.

- $250 for the initial consultation (this was Dec 2019, so fees may have changed since)

- My exisiting crease from the tape measured 6mm already.

- His recommendation: 1. Just a simple blepharoplasty and the crease will already look higher due to excess skin removal. 2. DES with removal of excess skin with a bit of a higher crease line (7.5mm - ish)

- He quoted me $4000-$5000 AUD

- He was very honest in terms of what his vision was with DES and how he likes everything to be natural and follow the natural anatomy of your eye.

- Not once was he pushing us to get the surgery done and actually told us that we had all the time in the world to get it done when we were completely confident and ready for it. He operates on skin cancer patients as well who actually NEED surgery whereas DES is more just cosmetic and we have a choice to do it when we want.

- He explained the anatomy of the eye through drawings etc and told us what we needed.

- He also told us that depending on our own natural eye’s anatomy, it will decide the type of crease that we will have. This is because he does not cut to the inner corner as he thinks that it is unnecessary and a very sensitive part of the eye. He could not guarantee that either of us will have a infold (we both wanted infolds). I know many of you who go to get it done in Korea/want to get it done in Korea will have a completely different experience with this, but this is just Dr Kim’s choice and I respected that.

- Also he is against epi/cantho if it is absolutely not required.

- Please note that he requires to AT LEAST see you a second time before you book the surgery in. There are exceptions to this, but usually you need 2 consultations.


2nd consultation:

- Went in Jan by myself this time.

- NOTE: My friend went the day before me and Dr Kim recommended her to come again for a 3rd consultation. Also, a bit of a bad experience here, but we read on his website that only the initial consultation was paid and the rest were free since he wants to see his patients for at least a 2nd consultation. My friend was asked to pay after her 2nd consultation, but brought up the website and this was waived. Due to our relationship, they obviously knew not to charge me as well.

- Knowing that you need to quit smoking 6 weeks before surgery, I had already started to hone it off from the beginning of the year.

- By the time the second consult came around, I was smoking 1 cigarette a day.

- I basically went into this consult already knowing what I wanted, and already had full trust in Dr Kim to do his thing.

- In this consultation, we basically just realigned on my goals and what I wanted.

- He addressed both options to me again, and I told him my eyelid crease was definitely very unstable and I was sure on DES.

- I told him already that I had started to quit smoking and am ready to get it done in March

- I think that really confirmed it with him too that I was ready and confident and he agreed to it.

- Please note that I had done A LOT of researching since I started using tape, so the fact that I had already decided to go and pay for a 1st consultation with Dr Kim, means that I was already pretty sure with him.


Surgery - 11/3:

- Won’t get into TOO much detail since it’s well documented on this forum

- Personally never understood why in Korea a lot of people were knocked out under general first and then woken up to the doc telling them to open and close their eyes.

- Dr Kim only did local and let me just say.... The Local was THE WORST.

- 3-4 shots per eye initially, from outer to the inner corner and each one getting worse and worse - 4.5/5 pain (maybe that’s why they use general first??)

- Eyes start feeling like HUGE LUMPS when the local kicks in.

- Surgery starts and this is a whole other experience like never before.

- Unlike going to the dentist or like any other place you hate going, you can’t just close your eyes and pretend like it’s going to be over soon.

- As Dr Kim was cutting my eyelid open, I could immediately see his extremely bright headlight through my right eye. There is a lot of pressure, no pain, and he does his thing. I start hearing this beeping, smelling weird burnt smell and feel this warm sensation on my eye. Weirdddd so weird. He starts tugging at my levator muscle and my eyelid involuntarily starts to open.

- He does the internal stitches then moves to my left eye.

- After internal stitches, he moves back to the right eye and stitches it up. This is where I need a top-up on the local. It wasn’t painful when he knew I needed more, I just told him I could feel the sting from him stitching me up and he kept checking on me when he decided to top me up. He decides to top up the local on my left eye before even starting the stitches.

- Unlike others on this forum, he didn’t use the normal 5-6 stitches (don’t know the medical term), but he used a subcuticular suture. (Google it for more info) This basically goes in one end and comes out the other, uninterrupted and is meant to make the scar more smooth.

- I went in at 2:15pm and got into a cab home at 4pm.


Day 0:

- 4/5 uncomfortable

- 3/5 pain

- Ointment made vision very blurry. I thought I could take the train home, but could barely even hail a taxi down to get home. Literally sat at a bus stop for about 2 mins almost having an anxiety attack before I started waving my hands like a crazy person and a taxi stopped. I could barely even see the time on my phone and 100% could not reply to any text messages whatsoever throughout the entire taxi ride.

- Do Not Travel alone

- Took 2 doses of Panamax (1 tablet per dose) and got a weird taste at the back of my mouth

- Started icing an hour after I got home ~6pm that night



Day 1:

- 2/5 uncomfortable

- 1/5 pain

- Woke up with a trail of dried blood down my face

- Iced for 20 mins every hour

- Ointment 3 times a day - followed this the first 2 times then layered it on every 3ish hour. It’s antibiotic ointment anyways, so doesn’t hurt to do more

- Antibiotics 4 times a day

- Propped up all day

- Left eye is looking lower than the right


Day 2:

- 1/5 uncomfortable

- 0 pain

- Woke up and the stitches stung a little

- Definitely still feels heaps swollen when I open my eyes

- Little to no feeling when i touch my eyelids - also feels really swollen

- Still icing as per yesterday

- Left eye’s outer crease is folding weird and also looking a tad smaller than the right

- Current concern is that the crease height may be too low because of how much it drops when it settles

- Told myself to let it heal first before being nitpicky, but defs easier said than done

- Propped up all day


Day 3:

- 1/5 uncomfortable

- 0 pain

- Waking up today was a lot better, no pain and barely any discomfort in my eyes. Could definitely feel it had de-swelled HEAPS

- There was slight tugging and discomfort at the back of my left eye but slowly subsided

- Bruising also subsided heaps

- Left eye still folding more than the right

- Continued the icing, but a lot less infrequent

- Propped up all day


Day 4:

- 0 discomfort

- 0 pain

- Waking up only to the feeling of eyes being swollen when opening them

- No more of that tugging in my left ehe

- Bruising starting to yellow a little bit

- Left eye healing a lot better than the right

- Right eye inner corner is still similar levels of swelling, suspect it may get better when stitches are out

- Concern now is that the inner crease of the left eye is looking a bit uneven/bumpy. The way the stitches are done, it creates a more seamless wound closure, but I can kinda see the stitching in this part....

- Also the stitching only has one outer knot and is pulled from 1 end. Scared that this is going to hurt soooo much because skin heals over stitches.

- No more icing! But also not using heat-packs either as doc said it doesn’t actually do anything


Day 5:

- 0 discomfort

- 0 pain

- Same feeling of swollen eyelids when waking up

- Side note: coronavirus starting to really cause issues nationwide and my stitches were meant to be taken out tomorrow. The doc called and said all surgeries have been cancelled with an onsite nurse to take sutures out. Wanted me to come in for a checkup but i sent him photos of my current eyelids and he said healing great, sutures out tomorrow


Day 6:

- 0 discomfort

- 0 pain

- Stitches out!!!

- Did not hurt like i was worried about!! There were slight stings, but nothing compared to what i thought it’d be!! So glad it’s over and all the tape is gone

- Went by train and looked so shady - had my hat on and all the way down my forehead, glasses AND my hoodie on, didn’t/couldn’t even look up.

- The stitches definitely held my eyelid together a lot more than i expected. A lot of that ‘swollen’ feeling was the stitches, but I can still feel the swelling obviously. The wounds are barely even visible honestly and i’m very happy with that.

- Bumpy/uneven part in my left eye’s inner crease is of no concern anymore! Smoothing out really well after stitch removal

- Main concern is that my left eye is currently an in fold, but right looking parallel/in out fold. Right is a lot more swollen, but i can see the cut and it looks like it’s a bit past the Mongolian fold. Personally would obviously prefer if they are both the same kind of fold, but won’t be mad if it’s SLIGHTLY different


Day 7:

- I’ll stop rating the pain and discomfort now since the stitches are out

- Still very visibly swollen, and it’s also obvious when I try to open my eyes - a lot of pressure on my eyelids due to swelling

- Eyelashes/under lash line on my left eye has finally started to normalise, and right is still really evidently higher (we already know that my left is healing quicker)

- The inner corner bumps from the stitches are still evident and I feel like this is has started to cause both my eyelid creases to be uneven. Only time will tell.

- Visible redness/bruising still on my eyelids when my eyes are open, which is more from the crease down


Day 8:

- Couldn’t sleep last night, so I decided to give my eyelids a bit of a massage to get the blood flowing. NOTE: this is not actual medical advice from my doc and is based on my own knowledge - definitely check with your doc first before doing this

- My eyes de-swelled a lot!! Not sure if I can attribute it to the massaging, but they have deflated a lot. I think it’s more obvious in person though. The redness as well has also gone down in the eyelid (crease down as mentioned in day 7)

- It is definitely a lot more presentable today

- The bruise on the outer corner of my right eye also going away!


Day 9:

- Massaged my eyelids again last night again

- Deswelled less than yesterday morning, but eyelids are normalising and becoming more even

- The outer crease on both eyes are splitting out into 2 - i think it’d go away after my stitches, but still happening. It’ll probably get better after the swelling goes down. Don’t see anyone else having the issue though so not sure if it’s normal. Also not mad if it stays like that hahaha just as long as it flares out and doesn’t interfere with my eyeliner.[/QUOTE


Hi did you get a gp referral? My gp says they dont do it

looseygoosey said: ↑

Yeah that's totally understandable and I feel like a lot of people go through that toss up between suturing (no scarring) vs incisional (potential bad/visible scarring).

Everywhere you read they all say that suturing is dependant on anatomy of your eye (e.g. skin, fat), but I personally just don't think it's worth it because it's not a permanent solution at all. I guess it also depends on why you're doing it - I just needed DES with excess skin removal, so I don't know the medical advantages of doing suturing as opposed to incisional.

This was my personal thought process:
I don't think I could go through doing suturing, having it come undone in a year or 2 (also significant time for incisional to recover) and then scurrying to find a surgeon to do incisional for me - because at the stage when it comes undone, I'd probably feel forced and hurried to find a solution for my eyelids. Like in my opinion, it's just not worth going through the recovery twice AND paying twice - when you can just do it the first time. Obviously still a lot of risk associated and definitely do your research etc, but that's just how I came to the decision of doing incisional.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

 

[looseygoosey]

Hey,
I don’t think you need GP referral for cosmetic surgery. I didn’t get one

 

[looseygoosey]

***Update***

Officially 2 months since my surgery!!

Attached eyes open and closed close-ups, comparison to 1st month and selfie version of my eyes too (comparing 6 weeks to 2 months).

Definitely settled more in terms of swelling but happy that the crease hasn’t dropped too much! My left eye is more a in-fold now and right one is parallel... if you look at the photo of my eyes closed, you can see my left eye fold under the incision line. There are small bumps (if I look really closely) on the incision line, assuming it’s still healing and that may be the reason why it’s folding under and making it more an in-fold now. When I run my finger along the incision lines though, I can barely feel anything which is so promising!! The scars are evidently less red as well! Otherwise, definitely looking more natural now.

 

[weehee]

Your eyes are so pretty! but australia seems out of budget for me

 

[looseygoosey]

Thanks!!

Are you from Australia? If you are, I’d definitely reconsider.

I had those exact thoughts too and that’s why I originally wanted to go Korea! But honestly, everything adds up if you do it overseas.

The surgery itself might be 2-3k, but you have to include flights, accom, visa and food. That’s probably another 2-3k or more (estimating since I haven’t been overseas in ages). Worst part is you’re paying to be in another country and you’ll be staying around your hotel for at least a week.

Obviously just my own opinion and I know a lot of people do that and have no issues. But it just seems like a waste to me and a shame to miss a good opportunity to tour a foreign country, even if you’ve been before.

 

[weehee]

No, I'm not from Australia. I'm considering if I should get my surgery done in my home country or Korea.

 

[looseygoosey]

Hmmm yeah I wouldn’t recommend doing it in Australia if you don’t live here.

Honestly, you’ll be surprised but there are good surgeons for DES in A LOT of different countries - it’s just a matter of finding them and filtering them out from the crowd. It is definitely possible, just takes a lot more work.

Australia is far from being a well-known place to get DES done but I just put in 1-2 years of effort and research to find the clinic I found in my hometown.

 

[looseygoosey]

***Update***

2.5 months since my surgery!

Today I noticed that my right eye is starting to normalise into an in-fold now!! It’s really starting to look more and more even! It’s definitely still slightly higher than my left and may stay that way, but I’m extremely happy with these results!

As much as I know it won’t stay this height, I actually really like how high it is currently and hoping that it won’t drop too much more from here on out.

Also, managed to have a face-to-face follow up with Dr Kim on Monday and he says that the crease heights are measuring up to be very even despite my left eye folding below the incision line. Swelling is still visible to him but my healing process is looking really good so far!

PS did a 1.5 month vs 2.5 month comparison since it looks visibly less swollen + right eye’s out-fold looks more obvious.

 

[sleepy_jean]

Thanks for your informative post, your eyes look great. I wish I’d seen your post before I got my eyes done in Sydney in 2015 by a so-called reputable surgeon. He charged me over $7k and caused all sorts of problems from the crease being placed way too high. I’m hoping to visit Seoul soon for a second revision stemming from the problems he caused. I kick myself everyday for not doing my research properly as it would have saved me a lot of money and heartache, so posts like yours will really help others avoid the mistakes that I made. Would you happen to know if Dr Kim does eyelid revisions at all?

 

[looseygoosey]

Thank you for the positive feedback!
I definitely do feel there is a huge lack of reviews for Australian surgeons so decided to do a comprehensive review on my own experience.

Dr Kim does do revision DES which he says is quite common (not as many as revision rhinoplasty), however, in my latest follow up (25/5) he did mention that he is considering to focus on skin cancer only to allow him more time to spend with his family. So I do suggest that you book a consultation in soon if you want to do it with him.