lui1992 Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 Hey guys Today is my First Day PO and I also want to share my experience with you, as I always was very thankful to hear from other girls! The spinal anesthesia didn't hurt to much, just like a normal syringe. I was very nervous so I got something that Made me fall asleep! Yesterday after the OP I was really in pain and after taking medicin against the pain I felt nauseous so I thought it would be the Best to just sleep, which wasn't easy because of the pain! unlike the other girls I didn't feel tightness or sore I just felt a strong pain in my hole calves. maybe I'm just oversensitive.. Today was the First time I felt relatively painless. but I am completely unable to move! I still lie in the same Position as Yesterday when they Put me into bed. Like everyone mentioned above, Dr. Jong is really nice and caring and although I'm alone I feel like they immediately would be there if I need something! Tomorrow my boyfriend comes to pick me up, i am curious if I will already be able to walk tomorrow but I don't think so! I'll keep you updated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lihuei Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 Hello everybody! It’s day 10 post surgery and I have flown out of Taipei! I’ve had 3 check-ups with Dr. Jong since I left the clinic, and they were on Day 6, 8 and 10 (this morning). Diary below, but it’s worth mentioning ahead of time that I did not follow Dr. Jong’s instructions to keep my legs bandaged outside the stocking whenever I’m standing up or walking around outside. I also walked quite plenty and got 3 days of foot reflexology & soft-ish leg massage (I think the foot reflexology was fine and in fact - helped with blood circulation - but the calf massage I think made an affect and should have been avoided. The masseuse, however ‘soft’ you tell them to be, most of the time can’t go THAT softly). My walking distance diary from Steps counter: Day 6 - 8.4 km (1st check up with Dr. Jong. Everything looks good.) Day 7 - 4.7 km + foot massage Day 8 - 7.7 km + foot massage (upon 2nd check-up, Dr. Jong found some built up fluid, but too little to be aspirated) Day 9 - 5 km + foot massage Day 10 - Flying out of Taipei On showering: Call me nasty, but I didn’t shower until Day 8 / 9! I just wiped myself a couple of times with a wet towel, wash my face and brushed my teeth by the sink, and managed to get my hair shampoo’ed and dried at the salon; they only cost about NT 300-350 ~ about $10. I also sanitize my compression stockings regularly with antiseptic wet wipes whenever I come back home from being outside. My main reason for not showering was because I was lazy, borderline not liking the process of taking off and putting back on my socks. They’re not so bad, I was just not motivated enough! In details:Day 3 - Post Op I woke up with quite a bit of discomfort to my legs. Had trouble sleeping comfortably throughout the night, several times waking up to readjust my position, massage my feet etc. I was not feeling excruciating pain, but stiffness and soreness on the feet, I guessed I was swelling against the compression stocking. I think I overdid my walking / moving around (even with the walking aid) on the previous day. Despite the weakness, I was too excited that I was released and no longer under medical watch, that I just wanted to move around more. I messaged Dr. Jong to ask him about this and the first thing he asked was if I’d walk a lot since my check-out. I guess he’s aware of how naughty everyone could get in moving around after being released. Well, it’s not easy to lay down for days straight! The over-restedness just prevented me from getting tired and being able to fall asleep! Anyhow, his suggestion is the same protocol to rest and keep legs elevated. So that’s what I did for the remaining of day 3. At least tried my best to.Day 4 - Post Op On heels, I practiced straightening out my knees as Dr. Jong instructed me to on this day. In addition, I walked around a little bit more on this day than the previous, while still keeping the bed-rest policy in check whenever I could.Day 5 - Post Op Not much different than Day 4. Slow practices, going gently, and feeling it becoming easier and more comfortable each time I practice. I did realise however, that once the body is in rested position again from standing up or walking, the muscles contract again and when you want to start standing up or walk again, the calves sort of, ‘restarts’ and you struggle a tiny bit to get mobile again. Day 6 - Post Op First check up with Dr. Jong, and everything looked good! I had already walked for about 1 hour on and off in total prior to Dr. Jong’s appointment. I learned how to put on the compression stockings on my own and Dr. Jong gave me the permission to walk more; knowing me, when I heard this I knew I would possibly overdo it. Hahah!! I proceeded to walking about 8.4 km on this day.Day 7 - Post OP My legs felt depleted of power today. Not surprised considering how much I’ve walked the previous day. So, I had the brilliant idea to get foot reflexology to 1) help with blood circulation; and 2) kill time. So, having walked better and better each time, and very confident with this idea, I did. The masseuse knew to go softer on the calf and had my permission to go nuts on my foot for maximum benefits. The calf massage wasn’t so hard but my calves did feel sore when she ran through them; I wasn’t sure whether to stop her or not, not knowing which to believe, if it would aggregate or stimulate better the wound. I thought there was only one way to find out: Get the massage and cross-check that with Dr. Jong’s ultrasound analysis! Often times I like to guinea-pig myself a little too much.Day 8 - Post Op Second check-up with Dr. Jong! He found about 9cc of built-up fluid (blood) on both calves. Not good, but not bad. They’re too little of an amount to be aspirated. He asked me how far/long/much I’ve walked, and I told him 8km and 5 km + foot relflexology and a little bit of leg massage. I asked him if the massage was ok, he said ‘ok, but not forcefully’. I also asked him if I could start walking on flatter shoes, I figured I was ready and the sooner I train them, the sooner I’ll be able to. He said yes, I can start lowering my heel. In my head, it also doesn’t make sense to walk so much on higher heels as you’re working your calf muscles more! Not to mention more tiring! Having practiced flat-footed in the hotel room, I decided I may not be ready for completely flat shoes just yet. I also ran through older posts of this thread and found people reporting a drop in endurance when they switch to flat shoes. I think the muscles need to be stretched down gradually and progressively. I went out and bought a pair of lower heels that I liked and can definitely use even after surgery. Much more comfortable height wise, but I can attest that the muscles are learning the new angle and I walk slower and weirder than on higher heels. Though I was aware that this is temporary until my legs are used to the new form, which, didn’t take long. Walked near 8 km again on this day + another massage. Day 9 - Post Op Nothing much different on this day. Had my foot reflexology and massage before bed time at 11pm (the place opens until 2am!). I allowed the masseuse to add a little bit of pressure into the leg massage. I had a feeling it was the wrong decision to make. Well, verdict in the morning on my last check up with Dr. Jong before my flight back home!Day 10 - Post Op As I predicted, the pressured massage on calf was a bad move. Dr. Jong found drastic fluid build-up, especially on my left calf. Up to 36cc from 9 of left leg. My right one was slightly less at 14cc. He aspirated both of them, but he was not so alarmed. He laughed saying I’m the only patient he knows who got this operation and would get a massage (because it hurts in a good, sore way?). He bandaged my legs, ran through after-care instructions for when I’m back home, gave me a Doctor’s letter for aspiration should I be needing them, a wheelchair certificate for the airport (which had been awesome cutting lines by the way!), and off I went. Regarding size of my legs, they haven’t gone down that much. Maybe about 1cm from original size fluctuating, I’m also not too concerned with the size at the moment - as I know I’ve been rebellious on the recovery process and find my legs swelled up more often than not. I think they were the smallest right after surgery when I was barely moving then. I’ll monitor for size around the 1 month mark and thereafter. Now that I don’t have Dr. Jong within 5-minute walk distance, I promise to keep my legs bandaged for as long as I can have them bandaged, no more calf massage, continue with the foot reflexology and general mobility rehab of walking and stretching. Let’s see how my recovery goes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lui1992 Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Heey! I'm on day 4 post op now and can slowly start to walk around with the walking aid. unlike the other girls I'm not recovering very well! I had my first check up with Dr. jong today and although my calves are still swollen the recovery is quite normal, but I have developed a condition called spinal headache which seems to be pretty rare. everytime I try to sit up or walk I get extreme headache and feel dizzy and sick. Moreover I got fever. Dr. jong says this should be better in 2 or 3 days, but for now I'm quite unable to practice walking because I simply can't stand up or even sit upright so my boyfriend brings me food to the hotel room as I can not really leave the room. I have never read about this at any other case on this forum so probably it's just bad luck. but either way I definitely think you should bring someone with you! I could never ever have gone through the past few days alone! At the moment I must admit I don't really care about my calves and just hope I'll recover soon. I'll keep you updated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lihuei Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Ah Lui!! I'm so sorry to hear your headaches and sickness end up more serious than nausea as I assumed.. I read up a little bit about it and seems like it's not that 'rare' and in fact, occurs more common than you think (even though less than 50% chance) as one of the possible side effects of spinal anaesthesia. Have you googled it up? I saw that they should go away on their own, but the amount of time it lasts should be monitored. And, funny enough, caffeine is supposed to help? : / On my end, it's Day 14 Post OP now, and I'm recovering quite alright. I can walk flat-footed faster each day, but can find myself limping to one side when tired. I've started to facilitate walking on the treadmill since yesterday, on slow speed, working my way up faster and targeting 1km distance. Today I've managed to increase speed and also distance to 1.6 km. I'm stretching here and there and still keeping my legs wrapped in compression stockings 24/7 plus bandage when my legs aren't elevated. I am still experiencing swelling, numbness and tingling on some parts of my feet and very occasionally, short, sharp bursts of mild pain on a couple parts of my feet too. These have been present since day of surgery, but I believed they will go away in time - and because I was too focused on the outcome of my calves, I wasn't really minding them! Hahahah... Another thing is that every time the legs are rested (from sleeping, or sitting down, or bed-rest elevated), when you want to get up to walk again, the muscles sort of 'restart' and they become tight again. You need a moment to stretch them out before they have full range of mobility again. Now, on looks of my calves. I finally stood straight in front of a full-length mirror the other night for the first time and was stunned to see my bare-naked new legs. I WAS IN LOVE! When I asked Dr. Jong how much reduction I could be expecting, he answered around 2 cm (he only took about 100 gr muscle from each leg; compared to what some girls posted here I thought they were quite little) - for a second I was a bit disappointed, at the same time keeping faith and trust in Dr. Jong's better judgment of shape. I also remind myself that my legs are quite short for my height, compensated by a longer torso. My starting out calf circumferences were 37 & 36.5; in the morning they are down to the 35 & 34 range (measured with the compression stockings on, in the morning). My measurements are quite off considering I measured with stockings on, and also without a proper tape measure. When I find a good tape measure I'll share again! You can see that's not much in cm-value in terms of reduction, but the difference is HUGE! I think if I were to go anywhere above 4-5cm reduction, my calves may be thin but they would look disproportionate on the less desirable end; not to mention shaving off too much muscle for quantity sake may interfere with function. Scary. I'll share some before / after photo in the next post, but i just want leave a note for those who are considering reduction and have consulted the Dr. Jong via email (I read from older posts that Dr. Park is able to promise far-higher number of cm reduction), EVERY CENTIMETER MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE. Depending on your height, lower body length, starting circumference, don't get discouraged too quickly. I appreciate Dr. Jong's honesty despite my initial disappointment (and I'm sure he deals with this from every patient, asking him to remove "A LOT, PLEASE"). Dr. Jong really focuses on the final shape of the calves, not just circumference. His sculpting ability is high and I just want to say that I am sooooooooo pleased with his work. I'm 100% glad I chose Dr. Jong. Consider also this is only 2 weeks post op, there's still loose skin and swelling on the legs. I can only hope and imagine that in 3-6 months time, up to a year, the final result could only be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lihuei Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Before and after. Taken about 1 month apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lui1992 Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 @LiHuei yeah I've googled it too and it depends on the source! some say its up to 70% others that it occurs only in 1% of the cases.. but I tried to take caffeine, so I actually drank a lot of coffee haha, and it really worked!! so I could go outside for longer than 10 minutes for the first time! The walking is already much better today! I could walk without the walking aid for the first time! but still with wedges! the left leg is much better than the right one, I even managed to walk flat on this side! Regarding Dr. jong I absolutely agree with LiHuei! and I'm also glad I haven chosen him! he calls me every day to ask if I'm alright! like other girls mentioned before, he provides a phone for the first days and walking aid and wheel chair! he even buys you exactly the food you want, while staying in the clinic (which isn't common in my country!!) so he's really caring and to me that is pretty important, I even think it makes a difference in the recovery process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happychallenger Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 Hi LiHuei how are you doing now? your legs look great! Dr Jong told me he'd only removed about 75g of muscles from each of my legs and I thought that was very little! I can't really see a huge difference which I'm pretty sad about right now... Hopefully I see a better result in a few more weeks. I'm now 1.5 month post op. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lihuei Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 Hi Happy challenger! I’m doing ok. I’m about 2.5 weeks post-op now. My right leg is going strong and i have been walking flat for a week now, but my left has been feeling tightness on a particular point of the calf that’s preventing full range of mobility - I’ve informed Dr. Jong this and included photos and videos for him to analyse, he’s going to send me a video response today. Dr. Jong removed about 100 gr of muscle from each of my leg, which I thought was also quite little, but have been pleased with the final look on the mirror when I have my socks and bandages off. Considering there is still A LOT of loose skin and swelling, the shape is surely still going to change. I'm also not measuring, I'm going more by appearance than measurement for the time being. They're too inaccurate right now. I’m prepared to give it at least 3 months before I make an opinion, and 6 - 12 months to expect ‘final’ final result. I think 1.5 months is still too early? Apart from the measurements, are you not liking how they look? And, are you still keeping your legs wrapped in stockings and bandage most of the time? I think the perception of ‘slim’ is really subjective here. And having seen some examples of Dr. Park’s results vs. Dr. Jong’s, my views are these: 1. I see Dr. Jong more as a sculptor and more attentive to the aesthetics; Dr. Parks results were a lot of skinny calves, which is fine and could be a preference to some people, but I much prefer shape and curves. Dr. Jong removed the bulges of my legs while still maintaining curvature and they’ve made a world’s difference in appearance. 2. From having read through this forum, I picked up the sense that Dr. Jong’s removal in muscle gram quantity tends to be on the modest side compared to Dr. Park’s. Dr. Park’s promise of reduction in cm value were also reportedly much greater than Dr. Jong. While it sounds tempting, it also sounds risky. The outcome of my legs so far aren’t the slimmest, but I think they are very proportional and go well with my body shape as a whole. I also believe if I shed some pounds of (fat) bodyweight, they’ll slim down as well. This happened to me two years ago, i found my calves much slimmer from fat loss. Plus, I’m sure when the skin starts to tighten up and shrink to close the ‘empty’ space, more reduction could be expected. I think the outcome of this surgery can be maximised by other efforts without sacrificing more muscle - because this in effect, would also affect recovery and function in the longer run, which is a risk I’m less willing to take. It’s worth adding that I’m a firmer believer in great difference through subtle changes. When I’m fully healed, I want people to look at me and wonder, “hmm.. She looks better but I can’t put my finger on why…”; rather than “WHOA, WHERE THE HELL DID HER LEGS GO?! I SWEAR THEY DID NOT LOOK LIKE THAT BEFORE” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happychallenger Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 Hi Luhuei, You've made me look at the whole situation from a different perspective and honestly reading your reply's made me feel so much better. I was actually quite depressed to find out only 75g of muscle was removed becaus Thats then least amount I've heard from anyone who's gone thru the op. I've been obsessed with measuring my calves 2-3 times a day and have been just focusing on the size, rather than the whole shape. I do like the way my legs look now but honestly I really was hoping to see a bigger difference given what I've had to go through. My legs don't hurt at all anymore and they seem to have completely healed because they're not swollen or in pain. I'm still wearing stockings 24/7 but have not been wearing bandages for a couple of weeks now. I've told the other girls this and I'll share this with you too: I've been taking scorbatate powder and Wobenzym N since the first week of surgery and these two natural supplements (help with muscle exertions and wounds) have given me a smooth recovery. My best friend is a naturopathic Doctor and that's how I learned about the supplements! They can be purchased online from Amazon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lihuei Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Happy Challenger, so good to hear your more positive outlook on your legs! And thanks for your supplemental recommendations also! I myself have put myself on a prescribed concoction of 9 supplemental vitamins, minerals and amino acids + collagen pills + arnica tablets to help aid my recovery also! I’ll list them next time as I don’t remember all of them. I quickly looked yours up and found that some of mine already overlap in the same ingredients, so that’s a good thing! I also add to my daily regimen some light massaging of the feet, ankles and calves with arnica gel or arnica oil - this to help prevent the hardening of scar tissue that develops after any injury. I’m stretching the calves whenever and wherever I could also. I’m 3.5 weeks post-op now! I can’t believe it’s been almost a month since the surgery, it feels a lot longer! I’m recovering on a good rate, I believe. Everything improves by the day from swelling, walking, stiffness. Looking forward to the time my body feels ready to become gradually more active again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happychallenger Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 I'm not sure if anyone is having trouble finding help aspirating their calves but if you are looking for some suggestions, I hope my post below helps! On Nov 27, I went out with friends and ended up walking/standing for more than 6 hours straight. I wore compression stockings when I went out but did not wrap my legs in elastic bandages. When I got home, my legs were extremely sore but I just thought I'd feel better in the morning after some elevation. The next morning came and I was SHOCKED to see how much fluid was built up in my legs!! I'd gently tap a spot and the whole calf would ripple, that's how bad it was. Immediately I panicked. Not only did my legs looked like a waterbed, they were swollen and painful. I haven't had pain in over 5 weeks so I knew this was serious. I took a video and sent it to Dr. Jong. He replied right away and said that there must be at least 50-60cc built up in each of my legs and I should get that aspirated asap. He also said to wrap my legs as tightly as I can tolerate, and elevate whenever possible to avoid blood clots and infections. This bothered me so much, I took a day off from work and went to see my family doctor (I'm in BC, Canada). After the doctor found out what I'd done to my legs, she was astonished and said she cannot help due to liability reasons. The only way I can get her to help is to get a full report, translated, from Dr. Jong to indicate what exactly was done and how. It sounded like too much of a hassle at the time so I decided to go to a hospital emergency room instead. The ER doctor said pretty much the same thing and asked me to try a private clinic. However the ER doctor said that he didn't think the fluid is too big of an issue. If I just keep elevating and keeping myself hydrated so my body does not retain water, the fluid should get absorbed by my body in a day or two. After I was released without given any medications or help in any form, I was depressed, angry, frustrated, and was just going so crazy. The next two days rolled by with constant elevations and wrapping and drinking water and peeing, things did not get better, but not worse either. On Dec 1, I called a plastic surgeon but was only able to speak to the receptionist, who was no help at all. I also tried calling a private clinic and was told the initial consultation costs $160cad and the treatment might cost up to $2000cad depending on what needs to be done. Money wasn't a big issue as I was so desperate, but they have never heard of "needle aspiration" and are not familiar with the procedure. They said to me that there is one big nerve and many many smaller nerves in my calves and no-one should ever stick a needle in there under any circumstances........ I was beyond despair by this point and felt like I was running out of options. I couldn't eat, couldn't focus when I was at work, all I could think of were my calves and how no one was able to help me. Then, my boyfriend who is a non-believer, asked me to try an acupuncturist or chinese medicine doctor/therapist. Dec 2, I called a popular chinese therapy centre and spoke to a registered acupuncturist. I explained my situation to him, he fully understood and said that the "bad blood" in my calves needs to be taken out. Not by a syringe but with tiny acupuncture needles and cupping. The chinese doctor told me, after I asked him if he's had experience with a similar case, that he's treated a patient with only 1 kidney who had trouble getting rid of his body fluid over a period of 9 years which resulted in severe infections and internal bleeding. He helped this particular patient by putting acupuncture needles in and cupping to "suck" the fluid out. It took him 9 sessions to drain all the fluid because the needles are so thin so only a little bit came out each time. And that's exactly what he did on my calf (yes only one as he said if I did two at the same time I would feel exhausted and might not be able to walk/drive safely). It did not hurt at all when the doctor was treating me but after, throbbing pain was quite bad that I had to take a couple advils. The doctor said he used a total of 100 needles...... I lol'd because I definitely did not feel like I had 100 needles in me. my calf did not feel better or worse after the acupuncture session but the next day, IT SHRUNK!!!! And no more rippling! I am supposed to go back tomorrow to have my other leg done and I just can't wait. I cannot express how relieved I am. If you're someone who's stressing out about the fluid in your legs and that no one is helping you, I'd urge you to try an acupuncturist (or a chinese therapist because I know not all acupuncturists do cupping)... because it works!!! I have also been recommended by the chinese doc to soak my legs in water + 1 cup of epsom salts for 20 minutes x 3 times a day. Anyway, hope this helps someone out there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lihuei Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Wow, @happychallenger that sounds crazy!! I can imagine your frustration and so sorry you had to go through that! I'm glad you found a way out finally though, thanks for sharing, this is useful information indeed. Sometimes modern, western medical practices can be so backwards when it comes to things that are 'outside of the books'. The moment they encounter something they never learned, they're paralysed as to knowing what to do. Even something as (that should be) simple as sticking a needle through a layer of skin to suck out fluid, if you think about it! Hooray for traditional alternative medicine practicions!! Thanks for sharing your story also, a gentle warning that I should STILL take it easy on my holiday travels coming up, keep my bandages on, elevate often, and definitely do not go for 6 hours straight at gravity position. Will have an easy New Years celebration.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happychallenger Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 hi @LiHuei yes definitely take it easy! I wasn't having pain or discomfort and felt like I was at 100%, so i just thought it was no big deal to walk without bandages. Dr. Jong's protocol was to wrap for 1 month and keep stockings on for 6 months but I strongly recommend at least 2-3 months of constant wrapping. Definitely be patient and let your legs heal, even when you think they have completely healed Now I'm elevating whenever possible: at work, at home, even when I go out to a restaurant i'd put my feet up on a chair i know it looks bad but since I have bandages on my legs I think people'd kind of understand haha..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lihuei Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 @happychallenger I have a question regarding your 6-hr load on your legs before the fluid build-up happened, what shoes were you wearing? Wedges? Pointy heels? Sneakers? Flats? Do you think the height and type of support mattered? I'm really trying to plan out my footwear for my holidays travels. lol. I'm sure I will walk more than usual and for new years eve, i still want to wear somewhat 'pretty' shoes! LOL. I'm 1 month + 2 days post op today! I plan to still wear the compression bandage on for longer when walking. It's so good that you still had your legs at no pain or discomfort at 1.5 months though; and by the way, did your feet swell up when you removed your bandage for that short amount of time? I am pretty much alright, but my right foot is still noticeably experiencing some numbness and mild pain now and again. I know this is nerve damage that will take time to heal, expecting 6 months - a year for this sort of thing to fully recover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happychallenger Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 @LiHuei is it your feet that's painful or your calf/leg? I've never really had pain in my feet so I can't relate but I hope the pain/discomfort goes away soon !! My feet did not swell up after that day I went out for 6 hours in fact it's only when I wrap my legs really tight, my feet get all purple and swollen. I wore booties when I went out, with 1.5inch heels. I try not to wear heels just because I don't want to be using my calf muscles while they're trying to heal. If you're planning on being on your feet for hours I strongly recommend not wearing anything with heels and also have your legs wrapped. Not saying that you'll end up having fluid in your legs like I did but being in heels will definitely tire your legs a lot quicker! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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