intherighthands Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 hey migookinamja, yea,, we sell camper trailers, and my role is sales&management, from my perspective, ability always come first, but this is a world where 99% of the people care about appearance, if you are good looking, ofcourse you dun need to be super hot, you do get some advantages over other people. For me, ability always comes first but i really need a more persuasive appearance than my old one, and if i know i look better, I will be more confident. Before i just had too many doubts about myself, I dun trust myself, i had really low self esteem, even i know I have quality and ability, I was afraid cause I just didn't think I can do it, and i think pple who had a normal nose will laugh at me. As I said, I truly believe what Dr Lee said to me that I will have many positive changes in my life, and in fact, I already feel I am more positive than before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angleplane Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Hello everyone, Sorry for the negative waves I'm sending, but at home, I was thinking of what was said on the forum and wanted to answer. Now, I will copy and paste what I wrote from my home (where I currently do not have internet) : By the way, I forgot to answer to what Joann had said to Kekeke concerning the meals. First of all, using the word "requested" makes me sound as if I was not being nice or as if I was a difficult client. So, it's easy to discredit me. Concerning the meals, I went once after I left the recovery room, to the Chinese cook (she speaks Chinese and Korean) and I mimicked "eating" and then, she smiled and gave me a porridge. I asked because when I was in the recovery room, a girl from Malaysia (who could speak Chinese to the cook) came everyday to have her meal in my recovery room (she used to share her room on the 7th floor of Officetel with me, my first night on the 6th of June). So, she ate after leaving the recovery room as she was leaving in Officetel, so I thought it was okay to ask to eat, but if they refused I wouldn't have mind. Then, I went down to the reception (there are videocameras everywhere in VIP, especially in front of the elevators, but since each floors are tiny, everything can be seen and I knew it, but there was nothing wrong in asking the cook if she could give me a snack). Anyway, when I went down to the reception, the receptionists looked at me. Then, Joann came to me and said "You haven't eaten my dear. I cannot let you like that, I need to take care of you, come and I will give you a lunch." I told her "Actually, I just come from the 4th floor and I already ate". But she insisted in accompanying me to the 4th floor and ask the cook again. Since, I was still hungry after the porridge, I did not refuse. Then, the cook (who is very nice), said something in Korean with her body language, in a nice way as if I acted as an unwise little girl, that probably meant "Oh, I gave you a porridge and that wasn't enough, you had to come with Joann to ask for more." I felt very embarrassed, but well, I told Joann I just ate at the 4th floor and she insisted in not wanting to let me out without lunch. Now, that Kekeke mentionned that this was held against me, I think Joann wanted to make me feel guilty that I asked for food. But the other Malaysian girl had her lunch everyday and no one is bashing her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angleplane Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Apart from these little stories, at the end what is held against me is : -I was messy (but it is easy to call someone messy, you just have to unpack your luggage and it's already a mess) -I mimicked that I was hungry to the cook once -I could not go to the dressing at 10AM because I had consultations at other clinics. Anyway, all I wanted to do is to share my entire experience here. When we are in the clinic, with other patients we discuss the positive and negative points but when it comes to the forum only the positive points are stated. If everyone disclosed their experience genuinely, Bisousx for example would not have paid 1000USD more than Kekeke or me (may be Townstory too because she was aware that Bisousx paid a higher price). Indeed, for paranasal implant + rhinoplasty , I paid 9000 USD, so did Kekeke, but Bisousx paid 10 000USD for the same thing. Also, Kekeke was sent by her sister who already had a rhinoplasty at VIP, the receptionist told me that was the reason why she was treated like a special guest. If the fact that I paid 9000USD was also part of the reason why I was treated like a cheap customer, I don't know. Every time I mention something positive about VIP on this forum, people agree on the forum and when I say something negative about VIP, people agree with me by private message and those who want to protect VIP, they do it on the forum. But, nothing can be perfect, if I say positive and negative things about the clinic, it's because I disclose everything. I can also talk of the good sides only but it wouldn't be objective. The reason why I wanted to share my entire experience, it is because I have no one else to talk about this. No one from my friends or family members know about plastic surgery, Korea and even less about VIP clinic. I know those who read my posts are interested in knowing my experience or they know what I'm talking about. I am sad that I have become the black sheep on this forum and that probably no one wants to be associated to me anymore, but well, I believe that my posts could help. And if they do help at least one person, I'd be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angleplane Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Apart from that, I've been thinking, and maybe I figured out the reason why Joann didn't have me in her heart from the beginning. Because, in fact she wasn't nice with me even on the phone before I arrived. I remember I sent her lots of emails with lots of attachments. Then, she said she could not open the attachments, as there were too many of them. These emails represented 20 hours of homework, because I try to simplify as much as I could the ideas I had. When she said there were too many attachments, I condensed all my emails into 4 pdf and 1 powerpoint. I tried to simplify it, but I have left technical terms like "subnasale" "glabella" "injection of corticosteroid to reduce the skin of the alar rim" "subcutaneous thinning" "trimming away subdermal region" "risk of devascularizing the nasal skin resulting in necrosis" "making the pyriform aperture less visible". She said "you know more about rhinoplasty than me". She also said "I cannot handle your emails". I said that's all, the 4 pdf and 1 powerpoint. But she also said "you sent too many emails" (approximatively 8 emails at once, but my aim was to do the homework before contacting her and bother her only once, but she probably thought I was going to send lots of emails everyday). Also, people have said that she has been to the US, so her English is excellent. Maybe she has been in the US, but I think she is not as comfortable with English as people may think because once, when I said "I am checking if I did not forget my laptop charger on the 2nd floor" she answered to me something that was completely unrelated like "your surgery went well". I think she guesses what patients might say. By the way, sometimes Joann would finish your sentences, even though you had something totally different in mind. There's nothing bad about that, it's just that she has no time and cannot really listen to everyone and also most of the patients have the same request. Anyway, concerning my emails, after I sent all my simplified emails, she said "Can I delete all your emails?" I felt offended, but I thought, it doesn't matter, I tried my best to communicate what I had in mind, at least I have a simplified version in few documents and it will be easy now for me to expalain to the doctor. Then, I had my exams, so I did not contact her for a month. I called her to say that I may come in July instead of June and that I cancelled the surgery date in June, because I had an important appointment on the 30th of June. But then, I changed my mind and thought I'd go ahead for the surgeries in June and come back on the 30th in my country. (The way I looked did not matter for the appointment, because as you may have guessed, as of now, I still look like a freak because I'm still swollen and I cannot apply make up). So, maybe she was offended by the fact that I cancelled the surgery date. And, then, I called her and said that actually I could actually come to Korea and still go back in the end of June and do what I had to do. I could tell she was not enthusiastic with me already, but once again, if I wanted to disclose everything the fact that I may come in July instead of June it is because I wanted them to know as early as possible that this spot could be offered to someone else. At the end, if I said nothing about my appointment, it would have all been better, because she would have not been confused, but on the other hand if I could not make it in June, she would have been aware too late and maybe she would have not had the time to put another patient at my initially scheduled surgery date. Anyway, in general, Joann is a "mother" like, authoritative person, she likes to be in charge, or as Intherighthands said, she is "bossy". At the clinic, others thought the same thing, I wasn't even the first to mention that she was "authoritative". So, when I arrived with my technical emails, maybe she felt threatened or maybe not, but that was my impression. Eg: If you say "I would like the 7th rib to be used and the central core only to avoid warping", she might answer something like "you don't trust Dr Lee", as she has told me several times and which was not true at all, as you can see in all my previous posts. By the way, I did not dare asking that, because anyway a surgeon has his own techniques and I believed he would use that anyway, and I thought if Kain knows about that information, probably he asked about it and if he didn't at least, he trusted Dr Lee enough to have his rhinoplasty with him, so I decided that I'd do my rhinoplasty there too, as other informed patients chose Dr Lee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angleplane Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 So, during the consultation, I really clicked with Dr Lee, we talked about all the technicalities and I was very happy. I did not like Joann's interventions "yes, Dr Lee give her lots of paranasal implants" (I did not say that, and now, sometimes I feel like removing the entire paranasal implant, as I had 5mm added). "Dr Lee her chin is TOO retruded" "Dr Lee she needs fat graft" "Dr Lee..." To be honest, during the consultation, since Dr Lee was pressured with time, I kind of ignored Joann because I was afraid to be influenced by her comments. Maybe, she held it against me, maybe yes, maybe not, I don't know. But anyway, Joann left and came back to say "another patient is waiting for his consultation, you're taking too long". So, yes, we're rushed from the consultation until the day of surgery. But no matter all the obstacles there are between Dr Lee and the patients, I still believe he's worth it. Also Joann said to me that Dr Lee said that I was probably good in academia. Later after the rhinoplasty, he was probably aware of the tension, and Joann told me he called her to shout at her and say that she did not take care of me (the bandages of Smallface clinic have compressed the swelling of my nose, so Dr Lee was afraid the result would be affected). Joann, with her professionalism, as always, and I think she did not genuinely care about my nose like Dr Lee was. She said "if the result is affected, who shares the responsibility ? Smallface, us or you ?" Maybe in prevision of a potential revision if needed. To summarize, who would pay. At the end, she's a salesperson. I said my nose should be alright, it is just the swelling that has taken the shape of the bandage. By the way, I have always remained calm, I was always polite and I kept silent when I was suffering from pain (dressings or nurses trying to find my hidden veins). Even Dr Song saw that I was holding my dress very tight when he did the dressing and he realized that I felt pain, but I never complained. Lol, maybe that's why I am saying every details of my experience here on the forum. By the way, I've shared my experience, but please all of you who went to VIP and also had the same impression as me, please share it on the forum and not with me by private message, first because even if it may not give a dream like vision of VIP, people reading the posts or lurkers, will be even more prepared when they'll go to VIP and they can choose their clinic informed. I understand that people don't want to share information like the price they've paid, but you see, if we did share our prices on the forum and not only by private message, some of us would have saved 1000 USD. This forum is not about telling who's in the best relationship with Joann or the staff of VIP, this forum is for the patients, for us to share our experience and to help each other, not to do some marketing for VIP to show our gratefulness. I am also grateful to Dr Lee, but this forum is for patients or potential patients, it should not become an advertisement place where only the positive things are said. I know this is not what people are trying to do, but by disclosing the positive only it sounds like that. Also, if I did not hang out with other TPF members (even though I would have really liked to get to know more about McDreamy or Bisousx for example) while I was in Korea it was because I had too many surgeries planned (I need time to prepare what I am going to say at the consultation). So, if people never had the opportunity to talk to me -other than 5 minutes-, it is easier to attack me. Also, I did not want to go to the McDonalds because even in my own country: I avoid fast foods, I cannot open my mouth to eat a sandwich because my masseter were cut by 50% and I try to become a vegetarian for the environment. Also, I am more interested in museums than shopping and I did not want to have to much to carry back home. I bought some Japanese cosmetics though. In general, for those who will try to write false allegations against me, all I have to say is that your posts are the reflection of who you are, it is easy to accuse someone of something because once the wrong is done, it is difficult to correct it. If you are here not to share your experience but to make me look bad because I was not best friend with Joann or because I made the mistake to ask you to host me while I was in need, I think you're wasting your time in bashing me and it is not helping anyone. Also, I am just a patient and nothing more, I think between patients there should be a solidarity and not the opposite. At some points, I felt like I had to justify my position in terms of how much I was liked by VIP clinic. I am also sensitive and not only my face is currently deformed because of the swelling and my unability to smile like before, which is psychologically already difficult, I don't need to be bashed on this forum for small things that I did or did not do. Apart from that, this morning I realized that I liked my bridge swollen (from the morning) because it looks more natural than when it is de-swollen (bridge to narrow and sharps which makes the sides have a deep shadow, which makes it look like a bar). So, maybe fillers could be a solution, but I do not want to have artificial materials in my body. As soon as I'll be able to make my facial expressions like before the surgery, I think I'll be happy because I realize I used to move my nose a lot as part of my facial expressions (eg: like a cat roaring or a child expressing that something did not taste good), which is not possible as of now and I look less lively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angleplane Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I read the posts from after my yesterday's post. Don't get me wrong. I am happy with VIP overall, otherwise I would not have done my liposuction there. Once again, there is no duality, as I read angleplane vs VIP. People should be less 100% in one side or in the other side. I feel like I'm in a trial. I also like VIP clinic for the skills of the surgeons and the services in general. I was stating the positive and negative sides, I mean I was just stating everything from my experience, even more details than what I was planning on writing, but since I had to defend myself, now I had to put the date of my arrival, date of surgeries etc., info that I thought no one would care about. But, I have always praised Dr Lee in every single post I wrote. In a humane point of view, I really love Dr Lee, Dr Song, the nurses and Jin from the reception. I even liked the cook. The others are polite and nice people, but we had a customer/ salesperson relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angleplane Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 As for healing, yes, I think I will give myself more time because I had many surgeries, so I have a lot of swelling. @Kain: Maybe, saying that I wanted to paranasal implant and bridge removed is a little premature. As to whether I am a perfectionist, I don't think I am as I can be late or messy. I am just a technician and details are necessary to solve problem sets. People are free to let their imagination make their own character of who I am. It only saddens me when people seem to be scared to be associated with me, it is as if I became the black sheep or something like that. Anyway, if you say you come from a previous patient, you may get 10% off, that's how I've got my 10% off because Joann did not believe me that I was a student after I sent my pdf documents. She said "You're a student ?" surprised, even though I told her 3 times on the phone before she gave me the discount. She said she gave me the discount because I mentioned the name of a previous patient. @Intherighthands: I also enjoyed discussing with you while at VIP and now that I see your before pictures, I think your surgery is a great success. Now, your body and face look handsome. That proves once again that Dr Lee is worth the entire experience. But anyway, in general, I am sure most people will have a better experience than I had with the marketing people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taeyang123 Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 LOL haha read this and i had to comment. u said no?? haha so bold. i would admit it right away, better to get it done with then ppl talking speculating that u got something done. hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vivi_bee Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Kain.. im not trying to be mean but are your before pix from along time ago? Cuz you looked like u've aged 10 yrs. When i got my nose done.. i gained 5 yrs and looked more mature too. Thanks for writing your signature! It saves ppl time and saves u annoyance from ppl asking the same questions over and over again! Some questions for ppl who got their nose done. 1) did u start getting deeper laugh lines.. or more saggyness or definition around your mouth from the side of your nose??? 2) Did u notice the skin on your nose becoming different? the skin on my nose use to be perfect.. now i have larged pores on my nose from the blackheads i got during the healing of my nose.. (i guess healing makes more oil production on your nose skin?) We it left pores on my nose... not happy at all......tried everything to get my nose back to normal... nothing works... wonder if anyone else experienced this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vivi_bee Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Ppl been saying this too much.. and i agree with rawdudes comment about ppl too lazy to read old posts. I had the bumps too but they went away. If it's like a giant wart outside your nose or something then yes maybe get that checked out.. But those who have bumps during there healing it's normal as your HEALING. Dont touch anything!! I also had a bump inside my nostril and freaked out, called my doctor and he told me not to worry.. and then i got a lil bump on the OUTSIDE of my nose which was like smaller then the one inside my nostril. Guess what ppl? My nose is perfect and looks completely natural right now. No bumps no lumps. Why? Maybe cuz im 2 yrs healed. But at 8 months i notice my nose already looked perfectly natural. Another thing i wanna repeat. Revision can be due to many things, for example.. im doing revision cuz i want a more feminine curvation to my side profile, i think thats better then ppl doing revision cuz u have some fake thing coming thru the tip of your nose.. i always wondered if that was painfully painful.. or perhaps ppl lost feeling in the tip of their nose cuz it's too plastic? Please keep in mind those who require revision cuz of warption though is most likely cuz they had used donated rib by other ppl that has been stored for god knows how long. (Hence, ppl complaining on here about their warptions cuz of donated rib...) Someone also said their nose warp cuz they decided to used their own rib when they were too young (this is why its good to get a doctor who doesnt care about money... some doctors say u are already full grown at age 20 but i think it's better to wait a lil longer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intherighthands Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 hahah. yea,, i should have and I was going to,, dunno why i said no!!! hahaha, but it was alright, maybe he knows,,, i didnt care about it in the end anyway,, all i cared about was how i am going to get myself a pay raise to 60k+comission.. haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angleplane Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I just read Rawdude's contribution : "now im just worried about joann as she is quite upset about this issue . poor joann always telling me she wanna retire" Now, I regret that I posted everything from my experience because, me too, I want to be in a good relationship with Joann. I have never stated something that did not happen and was entirely honest. To everyone, please, click on my nickname and see all my posts, I have never contradicted myself and if I was dishonest it would have been really difficult to stay consistent as I gave many details of every events. As I said in my previous post, overall I am satisfied of VIP and I will send customers to VIP because Dr Lee's skills are excellent. I already gave VIP's address to a girl who wanted to do a rhinoplasty that I met at the airport on my way home. So, to Joann, if you read that post. I have never had the intention to hurt you nor your interests. I just wanted to share everything, because I have no one else who can relate to what I experienced in VIP apart from those who want to have a rib cartilage rhinoplasty on this forum. On the other hand, Rawdude saying "onesided" review, I believe that readers are rational people like Jesse00 said and they will see that I never wanted to hurt nor blame anyone, I only stated my experience, the positive and negative sides. I remember that your posts were so onesided that I even thought, because of your posts, that the entire forum was just not real. Jay Lee from Shimmian told me that VIP clinic's marketing network is very powerful and repeated at 4 times that people were hired to write on forums even though I did not ask him to repeat. To everyone, don't get me wrong, I still recommend Dr Lee over Dr Jung. But anyway, how come people are saying thank you to VIP clinic on this forum ? This forum should be objective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intherighthands Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 yea,, i had bumps a few days ago too, but they were all gone now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taeyang123 Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 angleplane dont wrry too much about what other ppl say. the only one who can talk about the experience you had is you. no one else was their with you 100 percent of the time to see what u went through. u give a lot of useful information. and i think its rlly a shame tht ppl on this forum are attacking u for posting not only the positive but negative points of vip as well. as i recall u weren't the onli one who had something negative to say. so other ppl should not be so shocked about ure experience. this forum is suppose to be positive, not a place to attack ppl and pick apart their personal accounts of their experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenstar11 Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 @Angleplane: I agree with you 100%. Thanks for sharing your honest opinion and standing up for what you said. Everyone should not bash her just because she experienced a not-so-great experience at VIP while you did. This forum is for people to express their opinion, experiences, etc. so that others can learn from it. Whatever someone can take or benefit from another person's experience is what this forum is here to do (like saving someone an extra $1k). I see that others were so quick to judge angleplane/paint her as the "bad guy"/defend VIP so passionately even before knowing the truth behind the things she said. There is nothing wrong with telling her side of the story, whether it may not be what you want to hear. If you had a good/great experience, that's nice and we're all happy for you! But let other people express their experience too, although it may not be smooth-sailing as your's. I feel so bad for the way they treated you Angleplane. btw, June 8th was suppose to be my surgery date with VIP but I cancelled last minute and went with another clinic, which i am very please with. Also, there's nothing wrong with doing thorough research/homework going into this. The more you know, the better and i really admire you for that. Although I didn't go to VIP, I find it rude that Joann kept intervening and rushing you through the consultation and worse, the doctor while in surgery (that must've been a horrible feeling laying on the surgical bed and hearing that). To me, that's a redflag. One should feel that the doctor is taking his time to understand all that you want out of the surgery during the consultation instead of being rushed by his office manager. Angleplane never once said anything negatively about dr. lee but on the other hand, praised him so why is everyone up on her case? Even with a skilled surgeon, there will be bumps along the road that everyone may experience so be receptive to that. Thanks for sharing your comments Angleplane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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