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Hi all, I had a bunch of procedures done in late February and early March of 2020, and will be writing about it in this thread! Some of you might've followed my journey through KKT, Discord, or my blog, but I thought I'd post it here too for accessibility. Procedures done at Wannabe: EYES: incisional double eyelid surgery, ptosis correction, medial epicanthoplasty FAT GRAFT: forehead, temples, frontal cheek, chin UNDEREYE: fat repositioning JOWLS/JAW LINE: Accusculpt, threadlift (8 Mint threads), masseter muscle botox Dr. Jin Premium Nose Clinic: rhinoplasty with dorsum augmentation and tip projection using autologous rib cartilage Even though all of my surgeries were primaries, I knew that I wanted rib cartilage for my nose because of the long-term complication rate with alloplastic implants and donor cartilage, which made it seem inevitable that I'd need a revision surgery within a decade. I ended up picking Dr. Jin of Premium Nose Clinic without ever having an in-person consultation due to his experience with using autologous rib cartilage, natural aesthetic, and hearing positive things by word-of-mouth. For the other procedures, my short list was the following: JK Topface Namu Wannabe CWCMC (eye specialist only) I had scheduled Wannabe, Namu, and CWCMC for the first day, and then JK and Topface for the second day. Here are how the consultations went: WANNABE Alice is basically the most personable English speaking consultant ever- incredibly responsive and friendly. We'd corresponded over Kakao for about a month or so before I traveled to Seoul. The clinic was pretty easy to find and it was quiet when I arrived- one other client in the waiting room when I arrived, with 5 staff members at the front desk. I filled out some paperwork and they checked my passport to ensure that I hadn't visited China recently. I met with Alice for about 20 minutes and we continued our discussion now that I was actually in front of her. She assessed the thickness of my eyelid skin since I was interested in DES and medial epicanthoplasty- and she noted that I needed ptosis correction, which wasn't obvious from the pictures that I'd sent her. She also assessed the tissue around my jaw by touching my jaw and asking me to clench my teeth, since I'm pursuing non-invasive jaw contouring, and noted that it was a combination of muscle and fat that contributed to my square jaw, and suggested botox with Acculift and threadlifting. We then talked about my fat grafting aspirations- I'd already wanted fat grafting for my forehead and nasolabial lines, and she suggested that since I was already doing two areas, which counted as "full face" fat grafting, to also graft my frontal cheek area since that was sunken. After we had decided on the procedures, I met with Dr. Chang (also spelled as Jang), who agreed with the suggested procedures, and also suggested chin and undereye fat repositioning (I later learned that this was a specialty of his, and apparently he had invented a specialized needle for this procedure). Dr. Chang used that eye pokey tool to simulate folds for my eye- I wanted a slightly higher crease that would balance out the medial epicanthoplasty Overall, good experience with the clinic staff, Dr. Chang spoke English and was easy to talk to, seemed attentive and knowledgeable. Quoted prices were on the higher end, and I ended up with ALOT of procedures: incision DES, ptosis correction, medial epicanthoplasty, botox, accusculpt for jaw, threadlift (8 mint threads), undereye fat repositioning, full face fat injection and tear trough fat injection NAMU I'd been corresponding with Claire and she was very helpful but not always responsive- I get the impression that she's very busy. She seemed to forget that I was scheduled to consult today until I asked to confirm in the morning, and I think they had to squeeze me in even though the appointment had been made a month ago. The clinic was very busy with locals, and I spent about 10 minutes waiting before seeing Linda, the English speaking consultant. THEY DIDN'T CHECK MY PASSPORT and even though I'm American, I'm ethnically Chinese and definitely look it, so they don't seem to be taking Coronavirus precautions... Linda and I had a brief consultation and honestly I don't think anything interesting or important was said except that she suggested laser lifting instead of acculift, but also with threadlifting. I was to consult with Dr. Kirk, but he was in surgery, and I spent about an hour in the office twiddling my thumbs and taking photos of their B&A book. I also had the chance to observe the clinic hallway a bit, and it seemed pretty chaotic and frantic, which is a totally subjective opinion, but Eventually Dr. Kirk arrived and I think he just agreed with everything that I said, and I left feeling like nothing had really happened. I learned that Ulthera, the more expensive of the laser lifting options, was "stronger" and normally they would recommend 2 sessions of Doublo Gold for someone like me, but since I would probably only do one session, that I should go with Ulthera.(edited) NAMU overall: clinic felt very busy and chaotic, not sure I would receive any attention after the surgery lol, but quoted very low prices (about 50% of what WANNABE quoted me for roughly the same procedures). Possibly a good option if I weren't doing something as finicky as eyes. The price was definitely right. I might be concerned if I were visiting at a later date since they don't seem to be taking precautions against corona virus. CWCMC I was referred to Dr. Choi by Dr. Jin of Premier Nose, and I believe that Dr. Choi is an eye specialist in the same way that Dr. Jin is a nose specialist- they prioritize functionality over all else, which I think tends to result in a natural look. Dr. Choi was extremely warm and friendly, his English was good, and he was the only one who shook my hand lol (he knew I was American and I had been talking with him personally over KKT). I didn't even speak to any of his staff (I don't think they spoke English?). He took alot of time to ask what I wanted and explain the technical aspects of the procedures. We never talked about price. I feel very confident that he is an extremely technically talented surgeon, as well as generally a really nice and considerate person, but I didn't feel confident about whether he would achieve the aesthetic results that I wanted. His before and afters were very natural, but when he was using the pokey stick tool to shape my eye crease, he never seemed to get a shape that I wanted. I don't think I was able to properly convey to him the shape that I wanted, whereas with Dr. Chang of WANNABE, he was very quickly able to make the eye shape configuration that I was hoping for. CWCMC overall: I wish I had picked Dr. Choi just because he's so nice, but he only does eyes, and I wanted other procedures, and I didn't feel like he and I were on the same page about the results I hope to achieve I ended up picking Wannabe due to a few factors So outside of a few hard objective factors, like being licensed, accessible, seeing before and afters that seemed realistic and also aligned with my own personal ideal, etc., alot of my decision was based on "feel" or my "gut". It's entirely possible that I could've been just as happy or even more satisfied at Namu, but I picked Wannabe because of how they made me feel: Alice - honestly, she was a huge factor in my decision. The fact that I could communicate clearly with her and that I felt like I had her full attention whenever it was warranted made me feel comfortable and safe Dr. Chang - he very quickly and deftly manipulated my eyelids to the shape that I wanted to achieve, and I think that inspired confidence in me that he and I had similar aesthetic ideals. He also seemed calm (not stressed or overworked) and capable clinic staff - the staff were polite and helpful. call me superstitious but I think that if the staff are rude and stressed, that says something about the work environment only 2 doctors, and each doctor does a maximum of 4 surgeries a day, according to Alice I'll post more as I finish writing about the surgeries and recovery process
Disclaimer: This post is about my partner's plastic surgery experience at Namu Plastic Surgery Clinic. My partner got refund of the direct brow lift procedure due to permanent loss of actual brows and bad scarring issues. My partner will not reveal any information about this surgery because of the additional sentence Namu put in after she signed the original refund agreement. I know some people shared their good experience at Namu, that was also one of the reasons my partner chose them, however my partner's experience is quite the opposite. As a witness of what Namu did to my partner and how much psychological pain she is suffering everyday because of their mistakes, I think people deserve to know what happened and not fall into the same trap and suffer the same pain. I accompanied my partner to Korea last year for her ptosis correction, under eye fat reposition, and fat grafting procedures. Based on glowing reviews on Purseforums and Kakao chat groups, my partner chose to have these procedures done at Namu Plastic Surgery. Claire (the consultant) seemed very nice and caring at the consultation, she highly recommended Dr Kirk to my partner after my partner explained she wanted to keep her features just needed some improvements to correct ageing. After confirming my partner's planned procedures, Claire recommended and talked my partner into an extra procedure called direct brow lift. My partner was initially hesitate when Claire mentioned the incision will be above the brow line and I was against the procedure, but Claire made it sound like such a small fix, and said all their patients who had eye surgeries came back for this procedure and since my partner was having surgery she should just get it done together, my partner got convinced after Dr Kirk confirmed Claire's recommendation in the end. However, what Claire and Dr. Kirk didn’t mention at the consultation was that this procedure would cause brow hair loss, bad scarring and the fact that they would cut off her actual eyebrows. Who would expect their actual brows to be cut off for brow lift?!Issue 1: Actual brow got cut off without consentMy partner's brow thickness were 7mm, they cut off 2mm, that’s about 30% permanent loss.We found out her actual brows were cut off after the surgery when they took off the tape, so we questioned Dr Kirk and Claire why they cut off my partner's actual brows, as at the consultation my partner told them multiple times that she wanted to keep her features. Their explanation was "all Korean women have brow microblading, actual brows is not considered important feature to them, and we thought you would be ok with actual brows getting cut off, so we didn't tell you before the surgery". Claire tried to argue that doctor has the right to make judgement during the surgery, but the problem here is neither Dr Kirk nor Claire disclose the possibility of cutting my partner's actual brow before the surgery. My partner wouldn't have agreed on this procedure if Dr Kirk and Claire disclosed the full risks when they recommended it. If all doctors use Claire's argument when they operate on patients, does that mean doctors could do whatever they want to patient's face when patient is unconscious? In the end, they finally admitted their mistake and offered temporary brow microblading solution for my partner's permanent brow loss, but brow microblading cannot be done until after 6 month post operation.Issue 2: Hair lossBoth Dr Kirk and Claire knew the procedure would cause brow hair loss, but they decided not to tell my partner anything about it at the consultation.Immediately after they took off the tape, we noticed not only they cut off some of my partner's actual brows, there was also major hair loss on both of her brows, especially on her right brow. We asked Dr Kirk and Claire about it, and they said hair loss after this procedure is common side effect, then we asked them why they didn't tell us when they recommended this procedure at the consultation, they told us the same thing of "all Korean women have brow microblading, they don't care about brow hair, and we thought you would be ok, so we didn't tell you before the surgery". Ok, as a guy and a foreigner, I don't know if it's true, but if all korean women don't care about either their actual brow or brow hair, why eyebrow microblading is so well developed and popular in Korea?!Issue 3: Bad scarringWhen Claire recommended this procedure to my partner, both Claire and Dr Kirk told us the scars won’t be obvious when my partner brought up her concern of scarring. But the fact is they only learned about the scarring issues after operating on my partner, as my partner found out from other people in the Kakao chat group (PS 2019 Eyes & Nose) that Claire advised against the same procedure she recommended to my partner due to the bad scarring issue. Later on, when my partner questioned Claire about what she found out, Claire said "some people are ok with the scarring". At the consultation, my partner told them multiple times about her concern of scarring, but none of them warned her about the bad scarring, instead, the doctor reassured her that scars on face would heal very well to non obvious. Namu is plastic surgery clinic, my partner didn't go for them to fix functional issues, we don't know what made them think it would be ok for any females or males to have bad scaring on their faces. My partner also got other surgeons to check her scars at around 3 month post op, most of the surgeons commented the stitches were badly done that's why skin around the scars were very bumpy uneven and indented after so long. My partner went to Namu for plastic surgery to look better and younger, I don't know what made Dr Kirk and Claire think that my partner or anyone would be ok with an extra procedure that they recommended with side effects of bad scarring, hair loss, and actual brows got cut off without being informed before the surgery.Claire commented that my partner didn’t look that bad and considered my partner’s brows were not botched and well corrected by Dr Kirk. Let's put this straight, before the surgery my partner looked way better and younger with her full natural straight brows, now she is left with two uneven arched brows with different thickness, different shapes with different arches sitting at different heights. Dr Kirk argued that my partner’s brows were a bit asymmetrical before the surgery so he cut off more of her actual brow on one side. But the fact is, my partner’s old brows were much more symmetrical in term of thickness and shape. Doctors are supposed to improve symmetry not make it worse. If the variance between expectation and result is 5%, we can call it unsatisfactory. In my partner’s case, the result (30% permanent loss of actual brows with bad scarring and hair loss) and expectation (0% brow loss with non obvious scars) are not at bar, if this is not considered botched, should we go back to Namu and thank them for not cutting off my partner’s entire brows? I don’t know what everyone’s definition of botched plastic surgery is. Majority patients get plastic surgeries to look better, if someone looks worse after the surgery, has to spend more time putting on more makeups after the surgery, and has to spend more money to fix what previous doctor has done, then that’s indeed a botched surgery. No one would prepare to get functional issues or death when they go for plastic surgery.Dr Kirk even said he could reverse my partner's direct brow lift by cutting the same incision line if my partner not satisfy with the result after 6 months, but how could that be possible after the actual brow skin has already been cut off and disposed months ago? We have been seeking opinions from other surgeons in Korea after we came back to our own county. None of plastic surgeons would recommend this procedure because of the bad scarring and hair loss issue, they all confirmed that there is no reversal of this surgery. All the surgeons we have contacted were surprised that my partner was recommended and operated with the procedure, as based on her before surgery photo, the procedure was very unnecessary, she wasn’t a good candidate for that procedure to begin with, however, Dr Kirk still operated this procedure on my partner based on Claire's recommendation.My partner didn’t ask for this procedure, Claire and Dr Kirk talked her into it. That’s not ethical to sell procedures without full disclosure of risks. I am not sure how competent Dr Kirk is in performing this procedure, but according to other surgeons, this is a very outdated procedure rarely performed nowadays. I believe no ethical clinic in Korea would recommend this procedure to my partner based on her before. What Claire told us about all their clients came back for that procedure was basically untrue. Dr Kirk could just say to my partner that she wouldn’t need that procedure when Claire pushed on making sales, but instead he just agreed on a consultant whom doesn't have any medical background.My partner's trusting in Dr Kirk costed permanent loss of her brows , she has been self blaming and in depression since the surgery, it’s affecting her physical and mental health, it's heartbreaking to see loved one suffer from other people's mistakes. She has to see psychologist on regular basis for counselling and working on her depression issues.As soon as my partner shared her experience at Namu in the Kakao chat group, Claire offered refund of the brow lift procedure with an agreement stating no party will pursue any extra claims after the refund, she also blamed my partner's review in the chat group damaged their business. The chat group is open discussion for patients sharing their true plastic surgery experience, good or bad as long as it's the truth. Namu has no right to interfere the true information being shared or discussed in open chat groups. If Namu only want positive reviews floating in the the forums and chat groups, then they should provide more ethical and procedure knowledge training to their consultant and doctors to prevent any unnecessary procedures to be operated on their patients. If Claire and Dr Kirk disclosed full risks of this procedure at the time they recommended it to my partner, then my partner wouldn't have it done and the damage to their business that Claire talked about wouldn't have happened.Soon after my partner signed the refund agreement and sent it back to Claire, Claire put an additional sentence on the refund agreement that my partner just signed, the purpose of this extra sentence they put in was to stop my partner telling people about her experience at Namu. What they did was cut and paste my partner's signature from the document my partner read and signed into a different document with the additional sentence stating my partner will not reveal her surgery at Namu to anyone. My partner was mentally unstable and under great pressure when she had to accept that altered agreement. There are still two years warranty on other procedures she had done at Namu, but no way we would go back to Namu after all the damage they have done to my partner's face.I am sharing my partner's experience with the hope of someone reading this post could be more cautious putting their trust in doctor or clinic in a foreign country. In developed countries, medical professionals are regulated with very high ethical standard, patients naturally would trust doctor's recommendations and believe the doctor has disclosed full risks with worst case scenarios, however, plastic surgery in Korea is just big business. My partner picked Namu based on glowing reviews floating in the forum and chat groups, and she picked a smaller clinic because she thought if 2-3 doctors opened clinic then it means something to them, they have a reputation and have to be responsible. But unfortunately when those small clinics suddenly started to get ambitious and did things out of scope of expertise and comfort, people who trusted them got botched.We discovered there were more people got botched than we thought after my partner's surgery, but why we only see glowing reviews most of time? Firstly, people tend to share more of their positive experience with successful results, it is just the human natural. Secondly, people who got botched generally would fall into self blame and feel shamed about their failed surgery while going through a mental depression with much painful recovery. Finally, the clinics that botched their patients would offer either revisions or refund of procedure to keep their patients' mouth shut.I hope something could be done to prevent anymore unethical operation on foreigners, full risks should be disclosed to the patients before the surgery when a procedure is recommended, even the slightest chance, surgeon and consultant should inform patient before the surgery, so patient can decide themselves what they want to do with their face, plastic surgeons don't have the right to make decision for unconscious patient during the surgery. But I guess it's not always the case in some Korean clinics.So if you are planning plastic surgery in Korea, for your safety and your loved ones, I would suggest a few things below.- please don't put plain trust on doctors just because of the glowing reviews you read- please don't get convinced into extra procedure just because you are already having surgeries- please don't rush a decision because of time restraints- please don't have your guard off just because the consultant seems nice and caring, that's what they do to get your trust first then make sales- please don't pick a clinic because they offer two year warranty or great aftercare, because if they cut off too much of your bone, skin, fat or muscle, the two year warranty won't get back your bone, skin, fat or muscle that have been removed, and the great aftercare light won't matter if you get botched, plastic surgery need to be done right in the primaryI hope no one has to go through the same psychological pain as my partner. A botched surgery not only destroys you mentally and physically, it also hurts your family and friends who care about you but have to witness your pain. Please keep in mind, revisions are way more complicated and expensive than the primary, and not all botched surgeries could be fixed by revisions.