EverM or Face Design?

[Tremere]

I need help deciding between EverM and Face Design. They are the only two clinics I'm currently considering for double jaw,v-line and genioplasty. I really really liked EverM because the surgeon there has a very fine eye, and the clinic is big and spotless. The surgeon mentioned a lot of details that other clinics didn't.

But I just consulted at Face Design yesterday and the surgeon also has a very precise eye, I feel like more aesthetically oriented, and places q lot of emphasis on soft tissue. He recommended me chin and cheek lipo, and he understands Western beauty standards (all other nine surgeons I consulted thought my chin was provided, but he understood we like a strong chin in the West). The Face Design surgeon is a dentist and a plastic surgeon, whilst most maxillofacials, including the EverM one, are only dentists.

I'm really confused about whom to choose right now. I thought I'd be picking EverM for sure until my Face Design consultation.

[kino]

To be honest, as someone who has been in and out of various PS communities for 10+ years, I've never heard of anyone going to Face Design. There's been a long track record of foreigners who have been to EverM and published their experience, and a lot who have not published except within the chats, or smaller 1:1 or tight knit groups. And Kakao chats are very ephemeral and a lot of good info disappears into the either if you don't have a long history. That's why we hope to focus on building the discord community.

So I can't actually find or recall Face Design as being nothing more than a bookmark in my own research. But interestingly enough, a few investigative veterans have flagged and pointed out that it has oddly come up recently (past 30 days) in a compromised Kakao group chat that's created and operated by a very bad actor who has been ousted many times for undermining people's research.

Confusing (Misleading) Credential Flexing

Quote

The Face Design surgeon is a dentist and a plastic surgeon, whilst most maxillofacials, including the EverM one, are only dentists.

I decided to take a deeper dive into this, and my aspergers PS research tendency took over, so I thought I'd share details. Thanks for sharing this concern and question, it's always a tough decision, don't rush into it. 

With that said, I think you might be misunderstanding some misleading statements that have either been spoken directly to you? or something you read published on their site. After seeing Face Design's website, this clinic seems to be spinning some factual statements to frame their doctor in a flattering, but not entirely acurate light.

Breakdown:

• Both Dr Yoon (EverM) and Dr Lee (Face Design) are board certified Oral Maxillofacial Surgeons (OMS), or jaw and facial bone surgeons (the surgeries you want).
• All oral maxillofacial surgeons (OMS) are craniofacial surgeons and being a dentist is a requisite requirement. 
• However it appears Dr Lee stayed in school to complete general medicine degree in addition to OMS, and Dr Yoon just began practicing OMS sooner.

Flexing Credentials, Marketing Word Play, and the Law Creates Confusion

In Korea, by medical law, any medical doctor such as a gynaecologists, gastroenterologists, and even technically psychiatrists are permitted to perform plastic surgery (yes, crazy).

But, not every doctor is allowed to call themself a plastic surgeon. Only board certified plastic surgeons are allowed to call themselves plastic surgeons (yes, confusing).

The Plastic Surgeon & Oral Maxillofacial Rivalry

Being a board certified plastic surgeon can add an additional 8 to 10 years of study with residency, on top meeting rigorous board certification requirements. That's why board certified plastic surgeons hate general medical doctors performing plastic surgery and saying misleadingly statements that frame themselves as plastic surgeons. And that's why plastic surgeon boards and associations have created a national database for consumers to actually check. 

On the other hand, a board certified OMS hates general doctors, and board certified plastic surgeons performing bone and jaw surgeries. 

Dr Lee (Face Design) is not a board certified plastic surgeon. He is an OMS with a general medical degree who is performing plastic surgery without plastic surgeon board credentials. And is sort of doing a technical legal word play to position himself in a confusing grey area.

Below is a search for his Korean name (이상윤) in the national plastic database http://www.prskorea.co.kr/. He is not in there, but there is a doctor with the same name, but that clinic is called, "S Leaders Plastic Surgery" and it's in a city called Daegu.

The Irony

This Face Design doctor seems to be intentionally creating this confusing frame as a confidence ploy and way to distinguish himself. It's actually written on his self introduction on the Face Design's Korean website.

FACT CHECK:

Only oral maxillofacial surgeons who graduate from medical school and dental school and have expertise in medicine and dentistry can perform proper facial plastic surgery, considering facial bones, eyes, nose, skin soft tissue, and their functions and facial expressions.

• He is not a board certified facial plastic surgeon.
• His logic is more or less: 'I have a general medical degree, so I have specialized soft-tissue knowledge." This statement is bit of a stretch.
• OMS doctors know the dynamics between soft tissue & bone, it's not something only an OMS who also studied general medicine can know.

Plastic surgery or cosmetic surgery can be done only by graduating from medical school...

• Yes, but that means even a gynecologist can perform plastic surgery. 

While facial bone surgery cannot be done without a proper curriculum of oral maxillofacial surgery. Hospitals that simply take months of training and deceive patients under the name of double jaw surgery and facial contour specialists are increasingly failing surgery or getting unwanted results.

• Here he is basically saying an OMS is better than a general doctor or a plastic surgeon who is not an OMS.

My Thoughts:

If it comes to deciding who performs surgery well on non-Koreans, then having a proven track record amongst foreigners helps. And more people have shared their journeys with EverM in the collective community.

I'm not a fan of misleading statements, and word play tactics to create a confusing frame of confidence, so I think you know where I stand between the two on this. Also, the recent mentions by certain people about this place and some other technical and circumstantial details of their English site have some cause for concern and scrutiny (can DM deets).

It sounds like you want to have double jaw and facial contouring surgery, so perhaps you need an OMS who just focusses on this and is not distracted by trying to convince people he can also do other procedures (double eyes and nose jobs) when he's not board certified in them. 

Sorry, to have gone so Sherlock with his. I hope this helps, it would not hurt to ask for a re-consultation if you want clarification. It's a tough decision, again we have all been there, hang in there. And be sure to reach out to the community for support.

[Tremere]

Thank you so much, @kino. That answer is impressive. Who would you choose between EverM and Zeah? Zeah it's slightly cheaper.

[shyshoujo]

There is a youtuber who recently got her DJS at EverM! She has a whole story on Instagram where you can view her experience getting it. I think she said she'll make a video showing her whole experience. Not sure when she'll upload it but you could try to contact her for more information or questions you have.