kino

Is there a specific reason you're considering this method over the tried-and-true mini-lipo or traditional liposuction? It sounds like you're describing "skinny fat," and the fat around the belly is usually the most stubborn and last to go. Just in case people aren't aware, LAMs stands for Local Anesthetic Minimal-Invasive Liposuction. It typically involves an injection of a solution used to initially dissolve or break down the fat. This is followed by "tunneling," which means moving a large, thick syringe back and forth in a stabbing/scraping motion to further break up the fat, making it easier to be removed or suctioned out with a large syringe. This method contrasts with making an incision and inserting a cannula (tube) connected to a vacuum or using laser-assisted liposuction. The latter uses heat to emulsify fat and a saline solution, which is then suctioned out. This technique was coined and developed by 365 MC. Being a relatively new procedure, it's likely trademarked, so some clinics may not have the authorization to market it as LAMS. I've observed that iWell offers it, possibly because they received training from 365 MC and obtained permission to use the technique.

@polishedjade are you searching in English or Korean? You will have better chances searching by the Korean name. Do you know the clinics you want to search for? I'll try to dig up the Korean names for you to paste in. To be honest, I'm not a big fan of those apps because they're specifically designed to undermine rational decision making and increase impulsivity. They're great to scan and get some ideas, but I would not rely to heavily and base my choices on reviews or photos found there.

This is one of the frequently cited concerns that give a lot of people anxiety. Facial bone contouring aimed at size reduction is removing the skeletal structure supporting the soft tissue, so sagging can vary depending upon your age, anatomy, skin, soft tissue such as muscle and fat, and genetics. Sometimes facial contouring can be a two step approach with a bone contouring procedure done first, and then followed by a lift procedure 6 months to a year or more later. It's best to consult and ask these questions very throughly with the surgeon, and distinguish qualified opinions from those who may want to whisper sweet nothings ('no problem, don't worry') simply to get the surgery sale.

Hi @Noomie Welcome, it sounds like you have a good short list there of 6 places and you have good understanding of what you want to achieve. The next steps will be narrowing down from there. Going to 6 clinics may start to get a bit overwhelming because different doctors may suggest different approaches. Also, your next step would be to find the rhinoplasty specialist at each clinic and start looking into them. There's a lot of good info here, you can start digging up (I'll come back and re-edit this post with some links). Have you done any consults with those places so far? It would be good to consult with a doctor near your area as well, a lot of people don't consider this, but it's good for research purposes and to practice speaking with a doctor. They may charge for consult outside of Korea, but worth the price for more insight.

@tricenarian @Vivian_ couple of us what to revive our current discord, and would love help and mods, please feel free to help out. In light of recent happenings with the Kakao chats, it's become exposed that the person operating those chat rooms is a very bad and disgraced Korean plastic surgery industry member who has been working underground as an illegal surgery broker since he was cancelled and outed 2 years ago. This is very distressing, he is the worst person to be operating those groups and managed to fool people into thinking he was a foreign female.

Hi @starsandsky welcome and thanks for sharing. Plastic surgery marketing apps are an enticing place to discover some new clinics, but as a classic saying goes across various PS communities, please take information discovered online with a grain of salt. At the end of the day these apps are about marketing and advertising plastic surgery. And they are not designed to empower people to make rational and informed decisions, they are designed to do the opposite by undermining people's skepticism to cause them to make irrational decisions through discounts, dramatic before and afters, and sponsored and incentivized reviews. And in Korea these types of apps/platforms are heavily astroturfed (activity created by fake accounts to boost or attack clinics). This is especially true on a purse forum, where many original members on beauty hacker started. What look are you going for? How to Research: Please read this really detailed post by @somedayskiesareblue

@xulu that's good to have an early start, and if you are still a few years out, it would be better to continue doing what you are doing now and that is to focus on what you want to achieve and looking into the various pros and cons of different methods. Clinics change a lot and doctors move around to different clinics, so good to keep track of doctors rather than clinics.

@xuluHave you received any initial treatment recommendations text/email consults from the clinics? What are you hoping to change?

@xulu Paik at 101 is retired now, so might have to scratch that.

To be honest, as someone who has been in and out of various PS communities for 10+ years, I've never heard of anyone going to Face Design. There's been a long track record of foreigners who have been to EverM and published their experience, and a lot who have not published except within the chats, or smaller 1:1 or tight knit groups. And Kakao chats are very ephemeral and a lot of good info disappears into the either if you don't have a long history. That's why we hope to focus on building the discord community. So I can't actually find or recall Face Design as being nothing more than a bookmark in my own research. But interestingly enough, a few investigative veterans have flagged and pointed out that it has oddly come up recently (past 30 days) in a compromised Kakao group chat that's created and operated by a very bad actor who has been ousted many times for undermining people's research. Confusing (Misleading) Credential Flexing I decided to take a deeper dive into this, and my aspergers PS research tendency took over, so I thought I'd share details. Thanks for sharing this concern and question, it's always a tough decision, don't rush into it. With that said, I think you might be misunderstanding some misleading statements that have either been spoken directly to you? or something you read published on their site. After seeing Face Design's website, this clinic seems to be spinning some factual statements to frame their doctor in a flattering, but not entirely acurate light. Breakdown: Both Dr Yoon (EverM) and Dr Lee (Face Design) are board certified Oral Maxillofacial Surgeons (OMS), or jaw and facial bone surgeons (the surgeries you want). All oral maxillofacial surgeons (OMS) are craniofacial surgeons and being a dentist is a requisite requirement. However it appears Dr Lee stayed in school to complete general medicine degree in addition to OMS, and Dr Yoon just began practicing OMS sooner. Flexing Credentials, Marketing Word Play, and the Law Creates Confusion In Korea, by medical law, any medical doctor such as a gynaecologists, gastroenterologists, and even technically psychiatrists are permitted to perform plastic surgery (yes, crazy). But, not every doctor is allowed to call themself a plastic surgeon. Only board certified plastic surgeons are allowed to call themselves plastic surgeons (yes, confusing). The Plastic Surgeon & Oral Maxillofacial Rivalry Being a board certified plastic surgeon can add an additional 8 to 10 years of study with residency, on top meeting rigorous board certification requirements. That's why board certified plastic surgeons hate general medical doctors performing plastic surgery and saying misleadingly statements that frame themselves as plastic surgeons. And that's why plastic surgeon boards and associations have created a national database for consumers to actually check. On the other hand, a board certified OMS hates general doctors, and board certified plastic surgeons performing bone and jaw surgeries. Dr Lee (Face Design) is not a board certified plastic surgeon. He is an OMS with a general medical degree who is performing plastic surgery without plastic surgeon board credentials. And is sort of doing a technical legal word play to position himself in a confusing grey area. Below is a search for his Korean name (이상윤) in the national plastic database http://www.prskorea.co.kr/. He is not in there, but there is a doctor with the same name, but that clinic is called, "S Leaders Plastic Surgery" and it's in a city called Daegu. The Irony This Face Design doctor seems to be intentionally creating this confusing frame as a confidence ploy and way to distinguish himself. It's actually written on his self introduction on the Face Design's Korean website. FACT CHECK: Only oral maxillofacial surgeons who graduate from medical school and dental school and have expertise in medicine and dentistry can perform proper facial plastic surgery, considering facial bones, eyes, nose, skin soft tissue, and their functions and facial expressions. He is not a board certified facial plastic surgeon. His logic is more or less: 'I have a general medical degree, so I have specialized soft-tissue knowledge." This statement is bit of a stretch. OMS doctors know the dynamics between soft tissue & bone, it's not something only an OMS who also studied general medicine can know. Plastic surgery or cosmetic surgery can be done only by graduating from medical school... Yes, but that means even a gynecologist can perform plastic surgery. While facial bone surgery cannot be done without a proper curriculum of oral maxillofacial surgery. Hospitals that simply take months of training and deceive patients under the name of double jaw surgery and facial contour specialists are increasingly failing surgery or getting unwanted results. Here he is basically saying an OMS is better than a general doctor or a plastic surgeon who is not an OMS. My Thoughts: If it comes to deciding who performs surgery well on non-Koreans, then having a proven track record amongst foreigners helps. And more people have shared their journeys with EverM in the collective community. I'm not a fan of misleading statements, and word play tactics to create a confusing frame of confidence, so I think you know where I stand between the two on this. Also, the recent mentions by certain people about this place and some other technical and circumstantial details of their English site have some cause for concern and scrutiny (can DM deets). It sounds like you want to have double jaw and facial contouring surgery, so perhaps you need an OMS who just focusses on this and is not distracted by trying to convince people he can also do other procedures (double eyes and nose jobs) when he's not board certified in them. Sorry, to have gone so Sherlock with his. I hope this helps, it would not hurt to ask for a re-consultation if you want clarification. It's a tough decision, again we have all been there, hang in there. And be sure to reach out to the community for support.

@Tremere from our old chat groups there was a patient that had a good experience with Bio Dr Hong. I think the focus should be more so on doctors than clinics because doctors move around a lot.

That seems like a long list, you're bound to find a good person there. Do you want to trim it down to 3 to 4 clinics though? That might be like 20 hours of face to face consultation.

Not any case details in particular, but there have been some law blogs and articles that mentioned it's a procedure/point of contention because of its risk. And there are likely many general surgery practitioners trying to jump on it. Koreans tend to have a complex / concern over pronounced jaw bones and calf leg muscles, so naturally surgeons will want to treat a popular concern.

@TremereThis can be a bit of tricky surgery and is one that is bit controversial due to frequency of complaints, side effects and subsequently malpractice lawsuits in Korea. Please be sure the juice is worth the squeeze for this procedure, consult throughly, and make sure they explain everything to you including the side effects. Is there a particular reason why you're leaning towards Oz? Do you have any other clinics in your consideration set? These are some clinics that focus on this procedure: JSME Clinic Hafis Clinic Sage Clinic I can't speak for any of the above nor endorse them, but JSME and Hafis seem to focus on this heavily, so maybe worth a look. FYI: (종아리 퇴축술) This is what the procedure Korean is called in Korean just in case you want to search the Korean web.

@cool water it's very common to have the both procedures done at once. The term is called a septorhinoplasty. A septorhinoplasty is a two purpose procedure / surgery. First, it straightens or repairs your septum (the bone and cartilage in your nose that separates your nostrils), which can improve appearance while improving your breathing and functionality of your nose. And the second purpose is it to alter the shape of your nose. In Korea you will have 2 options for who can perform this procedure. Cosmetic Plastic Surgeon - These are surgeons who can improve function, but their focus and practice is primarily focused on cosmetics and aesthethics. Ear Nose Throat or Otorhinolaryngologist - These are doctors who specialize in nose surgery for improved function who may have developed aesthetic and cosmetic techniques along the way. Which one out of the two are you thinking about going to?

@strawberrytea this is a great update! a lot of good info in here. looking forward to the updates and how the results progress. How did that aftercare at another clinic work? Was it like a special promo to specifically get after care / de-swelling therapy at another clinic? Lymphatic drainage massage, etc... It sounds like you didn't swell that much and the recovery went pretty smoothly, maybe the therapy/after-care gave it an added synergistic boost. Were you doing any other things pre-loading on vitamins (bromelain, etc...), hydrating, resting, walking, etc...?

This is the most frustrating part of doing online research especially navigating the space by ourselves. You're definitely not alone in feeling disheartened by all the shenanigans that go on in the plastic surgery (ps) industry. Have you been in any of the group chats? Although those need some caution navigating as well. There is a Revision DES one that tends to have more genuine and authentic voices. What have you short listed so far, and what's your goal for your revision?

There is a difference between consultation appointments and surgery day. Scheduling a consultation ahead of time is always best, but nowadays you can getaway with just being a walk-in (due to COVID), but some clinics may end up telling you to come back the following or day after tomorrow if they need to prepare an interpreter or if their English coordinator has the day off. These days some English staff members are only working part-time. Deposits are only necessary if you have already decided and know you want surgery with that clinic and a particular doctor and want to lock down the schedule.

How's everything been since then?

Hi Krystal, we're going to focus on the discord groups. Have you joined it yet?

@Canadagirl hi just checking in. Sorry you went through all this. How have you been? Did you manage to get it revised in Canada?

You should stay 2 months if you plan to do jaw surgery and rhinoplasty. One thing to check with the jaw surgeon is if there is a chance your you can have nasal septal fracture during the jaw surgery. Sometimes surgeons are using hammers and instruments that have a chiseling like impact on your face. This might cause some damage to the septal cartilage, which might make it a bit challenging your rhinoplasty if the surgeon needs to use your septal cartilage. If the septal cartilage is not usable they'll have to use donor rib cartilage or your own rib cartilage.

@Nikki Incisional DES is what I am guessing, but best to get the official diagnosis from the doctors. Are you able to use sticky eye tape and does it work? If so, that's usually a simple (not fool proof) test to see if non-incisional would be an option. I also notice in your photo you might be lifting your brow, which might indicate ptosis. Incisional is usually the the most effective method. Do you have some concerns or preferences?

@JustDimples14 you're in my thoughts hope you're in a better place now from when you went through this ordeal.

@Hello3 great breakdown and post. I'm surprised the quotes coming back at 5 to 7 especially in light of the low demand during COVID.