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@babygirl22 welcome, have you short listed any places yet? Places that are known for rib are if you need somewhere to start asking around: Hanabi, O & Young, April 31, and The Plus.

Really awesome post, learned a lot from this!

Are you going to have anytime to consult with all 3? That would be the best bet, and you might be able to see all three in one day.

Once it's been decided you would typically need to stay 7 days after the surgery date. Here's a post that might be helpful:

Hi Mich, The most popular season is winter. It's just generally comfortable to go around that time because the weather is colder. Why is Winter Popular Cold wind & air can help recovery Wearing winter clothes & masks feels normal & comfortable It also feels emotionally fine to stay indoors & hibernate as opposed to being cooped on a lovely day. Most people have also saved time their vacation time around this season and will maximize winter holidays & new year If you want to avoid peak times, but still have pleasant weather then Spring & Fall months. By the way, here is an amazing thread by @JLBCGP

Desktop App Download: You can use discord on your PC/Mac at home or work. Windows: https://discordapp.com/api/download?platform=windows Mac: https://discordapp.com/api/download?platform=osx Mobile Apps: Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.discord&hl=en iPhone: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/discord/id985746746 Web browser (no download needed) If you don't have your phone or PC you can login into discord using any web browser like Chrome, Internet Explorer, Safari etc... Web browser: https://discordapp.com/app Chat bar now has formatting. See formatting like bold, italics, mentions, emojis, and more live as you type. We also show a character counter when you get close to max, and if you go over, give you the option to upload text as a file. You can now log in to desktop using QR Codes. If you’re logged into Discord on your mobile device, just use your phone to scan the QR code on the Discord desktop app or webpage and you’re in.

You're right, many people here are trying to treat their "perceived" physical flaws. I say perceived because beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and people are free to like or prefer different things. The act of noticing and thinking about these flaws can cause one to feel varying degrees of emotional stress. It can be mild as, "Oh, look at that flaw. Whatever, it's ok, no big deal" butt can sound as extreme as, "OMG, look at that! I want to shut myself indoors, and never be seen again!" Plastic surgery is an outside-in attempt to alleviate this stress through physical transformation. It may or may not work for some. That's why it's important for people to consider adjusting their lens or doing some inner work. This is inner exploratory work to take a mental inventory to gauge how healthy are our levels of self-esteem and self love (too high or low). There are many ways to do this: psychotherapy, journaling, questionnaires, philosophical inquiry, soul searching, self-reflection, and or meditative contemplation etc... It's one thing to seek a satisfactory & realistic result and another to chase after perfection. The difference is one race or game has a finish line and other doesn't. When it doesn't it can become an unhealthy distraction or addiction. This distraction can give us temporary relief to avoid sitting with the painful thoughts and stress. But when we find ourselves escaping too much despite negative consequences on the rest of out lives: family, social, career, health and finances that we have to see it's a problem. There was a point in my life where the self talk about my appearance was very negative, and very self-conscious about my perceived flaws. It was exhausting, and could get easily triggered if I saw an unflattering photo or reflection of myself, or I came across a beautiful photo of someone else. It was really distressing if someone made an innocent remark, or an intentional insult about my appearance. It could make or break my day, and I got very stressed. To escape the stress, I would then start taking selfies, making measurements, photoshopping and analyzing, and then researching what I could do. The research into the surgeries became an escape in and of itself. Even when good-looking people complimented me (social approval) including significant others, I would not feel satisfied. Then I decided to take break and make the time to do a lot of inner work on myself to find the root of this self-talk, which was usually unquestioned thinking / programmed beliefs from some silly conflicts from childhood. Inner work has helped me a lot in having a more realistic and healthy perception of myself, and how I set and go about my beauty goals going forward. The short answer IMHO, only the way you perceive yourself is what makes you happy, not plastic surgery. Plastic surgery only helps if you have the lens and ability to appreciate the results.

@gmcnm1920 This is also going to likely fall under Korean Contract Law and the Korean Civil Act and its various Civil Codes. http://koreanlii.or.kr/w/index.php/Sales In civil law language, a deposit is considered "Arrha" (an object in ancient Rome, usually a ring or a sum of money / given, upon entering into a contract, as an earnest). In modern legal terms, it's a deposit paid to demonstrate commitment and to bind a contract, with the remainder due at a particular time. If the contract is breached by failure to pay, then the earnest payment is kept by the recipient as pre-determined (liquidated) or committed damages. The rule concerned with arrha can be found in Korean Civil Code article 565, stating: ① If one of the parties to a contract of sale has delivered, at the time of entering into the contract, money or other things under the name of down payment, assurance deposit, etc. to the other party, unless otherwise agreed upon between the parties, the deliverer by giving up such money, and the receiver by repaying double such money, may terminate such contract before one of the parties has initiated performance of the contract. "WTF: English Please" This law is basically saying both parties can terminate. If you terminate, you give up the deposit, but if the clinic cancels your surgery they have to pay twice the deposit back to you. However @Jabba and @Rey may be referring to more specific law (I know it exists just need to find it) that no cancellation policy was cited or put in place, which may fall somewhere in commercial & civil law that may give you rights to the full deposit or some partial amount. I'll see what I can dig up. Since this falls under civil law, meaning the law that deals with behavior that constitutes an injury to an individual or other private party, such as a corporation, it can't be reported to the police per se, but you would have grounds to cite it, that you can legitimately file for damages in civil law suit. I'm no Korean law expert, but essentially this can be cited to them: Korean Version: http://law.go.kr/법령/민법/제565조 My Advice Before you start busting out Korean law codes at your clinic consultant like Harvey Specter on a K-Drama version of "Suits." Try to exhaust all reasonable, polite and civil means, and escalate as needed. First ask them for the deposit back since you want to cancel If they say, "no refunds." Ask, "can you please show me the no refund policy and where and when I agreed to it?" If they say, "we don't have one, but still no refunds" Tell them, "I have legal grounds to escalate this matter. I am not going to waste my time and money on a law suit, but I can easily file a complaint and use free government resources available to me from the Korean Consumer Agency, Korean Federal Trade Commission, and the Ministry of Health, and Korean Tourism Organization. And it's going to be your time that's wasted answering to all of them. All of them will likely ask you for the same agreement or policy, and it will prove that I am right, so let's save that hassle. Please give me my money back, and I will tell others how cooperative and understanding you were, and you can go on to make a more clear policy for others. If not, we can drag this out and I can vent to everyone how difficult this experience has been for me, and I did not even have surgery at your clinic."

It's always ideal to try to find a surgeon as close to home as possible. Even if you don't plan to get surgery in your own country. It doesn't hurt to consult.

Hi Nikki, there are going to be a lot of choices for facials, so it depends upon your goal: Example Goals: Treating yourself to day of wellness and skin boost or pick me (short-term). Treating some skin trouble spots to make "progress" towards lasting alleviation. I say "progress" because skin treatments usually need to be continued with follow up sessions. But depending upon the concern and ones budget, some treatment packages / stacks can give good results with only one or two sessions, but usually effective methods are also reflected by their price and can be more aggressive (downtime / recovery time) In terms of places to get facials in Seoul, they can be organized into 3 categories. 1) Dermatology Clinics Can perform laser treatments along side facials Treatments can be medical grade (i.e. intensive) Cost may be higher Good for clinical methods that make an lasting improvement, but depends on treatment method chosen. 2) Esthetician Boutiques Treatments are facials & massages with various masks, serums, clay, steam, etc... Rejuvenating and noticeable glow immediately after Price range depending upon small shop vs high-end luxury spot. Good for general facial treatment for a one-day pick me up / relaxation. 3) Beauty Spas Beauty & wellness with larger options menu for treatments (face & body). Usually longer treatment times (2 hours to full day) Price range depending upon small shop vs high-end luxury spot. Good for combining relaxation and facial for one-day pick me up / relaxation.

Hi baby ghy, welcome to Beauty Hacker. It would be good to create a thread like: "Looking for a eye surgery and breast clinic" Your past surgery What have you researched so far, and any clinics you have in mind The community may then chime in with feedback.

@breadtard An oral maxillofacial surgeon

Airbnb is a common alternative to hotels, but here are some Airbnb selection tips: Try to pick ones near the clinic area (Gangnam Station, Yeoksam Station, Non-hyeon Station, Sinsa Station). Picking places around here will generally put you in 8 to 15 commute from most clinics located in the Gangnam area (depends on traffic) Try to pick places that have an elevator or are only 2 or 3 floors max stair walk if there is no elevator. If you stay in a hotel or airbnb make sure you prepare it for your recovery. Move things that you might trip on, cover up sharp corners, buy plastic covers if you think you may leak from your wound site, make sure you get plenty of pillows, so you can sleep on a 45 degree angle. You could also try a homestay with a Korean family, and let them know if you are coming for surgery. Note of Caution About Hosts Be cautious when telling a host you are coming for surgery. Although we'd like to believe in the kindness of strangers, if they suddenly become invested in your surgery details and volunteering their time to assist you, then they may actually be brokering your surgery without your knowledge. You should not disclose the names of the clinic you plan to visit until you have confirmed your final prices face to face, and have decided upon which clinic will do the surgery. If they ask clinic details before that time, then give them a random clinic name that you don't actually plan to visit. You can tell them the real clinic name after everything has been confirmed and decided upon, since it may be relevant for them to know for emergency contact purposes after your surgery. Some red flags that a host may be acting as a covert broker is if they start volunteering services that are essentially done by medical tour agencies such as planing and arranging your clinic schedule, soliciting clinic recommendations, handling your personal information with clinics, escorting you to the clinic and interpreting for you. If you want all these things then you should just simply work with an actual medical tour agency from the get go, since they'll be upfront about these services and what their role and responsibilities are.

If you are below 18, you need parental consent. But you should check with a qualified doctor to see if you have achieved full adult development of your mandible or jaw.

That's a decent set to start with since both are well known to perform lip surgeries. MVP though has a tendency to emphasize its reconstructive and cleft lip skills, while Deesse tends to emphasize its cosmetic lip surgery skills. That's not to say that MVP can't do purely aesthetic enhancements, nor that Deesse can't do cleft surgeries. Some other places that come up for lip surgery are Golden View, Hyundai Aesthetics, and HB Plastic Surgery. The latter two (Hyundai and HB), from their surgeon bios and some old blog mentions, used to work at Deesse, so I imagine, they also trained under their main lip surgeon and may be well practiced also. It would be best to see which one suits your preferences when you reach out.

Welcome!

Welcome to Beauty Hacker, and we all hope to help each other get good information. I've come across some information on Dr. Wittenberg he seems qualified and competent to perform a genioplasty. In terms of being Asian vs Caucasian, a surgeon like Wittenberg would have a range of diverse patients by practicing in Vancouver, so would New York's Jamali. In terms of proportions, any qualified surgeon with an eye for facial aesthetics will know the right proportions for a genioplasty, which is one of the more straight forward facial contouring procedures. There are a lot of benefits to getting treatment at home or closer to home instead of going abroad. The standards of care and legal systems afforded to you by North America will be more easy to navigate. Let's hope you never have to do this, but would you rather sue a Canadian / US surgeon or a Korean surgeon? I would say its best to go with your guy, but when it comes to legitimacy of reviews you have to use your discretion, even on RealSelf. Korean sales and marketing staff are notorious for posting fake reviews on RealSelf and purse forum, the latter was once the home to many of us experienced surgery veterans. But now purse forum is an untrustworthy source for plastic surgery information. And that's why many of us came together to make a forum that blocks Korean registrations entirely (Beauty Hacker). Usually smaller maxillofacial clinics such as Dr Lee (Face Dental) and Dr Yoon (EverM) have authentic reviews from real people, they are not really the type of clinics who play these sort of review marketing games, but with that said, you might have to be weary of clinics who might also do smear campaigns against smaller and authentically reviewed clinics out of jealously. But don't worry, none of that mess will happen here.

What sort of prices are you getting back?

This clinic has been starting to get mentioned frequently, and like a few other clinics, it could likely be by design and not organic or natural rise like Everm or TFD. Meaning people are getting incentivized or creative clinic marketing staff are increasing the mentions of the clinic artificially on other forums.

Canthopexy vs Canthoplasty Sometimes the terms Canthopexy and Canthoplasty get used interchangeably. Technically these are two different procedures. These two basically work on the outer corner of the eye (lateral canthal tendon / lateral commissure/canthus). Canthopexy is repositioning the tendon without cutting it. Canthoplasty is cutting the tendon. Both techniques can be done in combination, which some surgeons for simplicity sake will then just call a canthoplasty. These procedures have been done for years to correct malposition of the eyelid corner. To create wider and brighter eyes, it's usually correcting "Mulan" eyes, where the outter corner slants higher than the inner corner, so the outer corner needs to be brought down (canthopexy) and moved out (canthoplasty). Canthoplasty = makes eyes appear longer. Canthopexy = corrects slant Cantoplasty + Canthopexy = improves length + slant and has synergy of making eyes look bigger when combined together. This photo shows how positioning the outer corner, out and down creates larger or brighter eyes. Risks: All surgeries carry risks, for canthoplasty and canthopexy common complications include deformity of the outer corner (lateral commissure/canthus), recurrence (going back to how it was before), mucosal exposure (exposing too much of the pink tissue in your eye), and ectropion (the inside of your lower eyelid sagging and skin rolling out exposing too much pink soft tissue). Sources: Cosmetic Lateral Canthoplasty: Lateral Canthoplasty to Lengthen the Lateral Canthal Angle and Correct the Outer Tail of the Eye Cosmetic Lateral Canthoplasty: Preserving the Lateral Canthal Angle

Hi Rey, some people in the Eyes and Nose group have had lipo. People usually cover general topics in there too.

Esther you are having analysis paralysis. Right now you're at 10 picks, and you should really think about getting this down to 3 to 5 max for face to face consults. Having 10 face to face consults is too much. It will become confusing and all the recommendations, prices, schedules and doctors will become a blur. Based on this list, the ones you have responses from so far are essentially 5, I took out DAPS because it did not supply a quote. Eyelid surgery is one the more straight forward surgeries in Korea, so the clinics below should be competent in this procedure, especially from my own knowledge and experience. Ruby Pop Gylumhan Marble Top Face Your next step now is to go out into the field and consult and begin the process of elimination. Write down what are the most important factors for you and at the face to face consultation start to narrow down: Your goals: Wider and brighter (dolly) eyes and appearance Under eye and dark circle / bag correction Assess the clinic / doctor Recommendation & method Doctors understanding of your goal & feasibility Staff & overall vibes (listen to your gut) Pricing and schedule

@ohwon01 Thanks for sharing these thoughts. I think a lot of people have been in this boat in terms of being satisfied with their results and contemplating a revision or just learning to accept their results, even if they felt it fell below their expectations. Sometimes we are our own worst critics, and can hyper focus on our perceived flaws. I'm reminded of that Dove "Real Beauty" commercial where an ex-law enforcement sketch artist makes two sketches of women without seeing them. He only listens to how they are described by the women themselves, and then by a random stranger who had casual chat with them. The random stranger gave a more accurate portrayal, and the women describing themselves were more critical on their perceived flaws, and less flattering in the details. Inside-Out vs Outside-In It seems like your eyes are affecting the quality of your life, and if it's persistent and keeps making you feel self-conscious. Then you're on the right path by trying to make a reasonable inside-out attempt to alleviate an emotional complex about a physical flaw through inner-work. Things like self-dialog, journaling and even speaking with trusted advisors, groups and counselors will help. But after that, if you feel the approach should be surgical, or correcting the issue from outside-in (alleviate an emotional complex caused by a physical flaw through surgery) then it would be best to to understand the feasibility of those options. Anxiety comes from fear of the unknown, so you have to make the unknown known as much as possible, and that comes from speaking to revision experts. Revision Anxiety Contemplating revision can be nerve wracking since you don't want it to be worse, and it's the idea of taking another risk. But it's best to understand your options so you can either eliminate surgery, or have plausible reasons to explore it as option. You will only get this from having a good consultations with experienced surgeons. Plastic surgery is as much mental as it is physical, so if you decide to have revision. You have to put yourself in a good headspace and make well thought out plans, and be optimistic. This is going to sound contradictory to being optimistic, but one thought exercise I recommend is something called "Negative Visualization." It is a technique philosophers would use to make them appreciate and enjoy life. Imagine a worst case scenario for your eyes now. Imagine if your first surgery damaged their function, made them uneven, or worse off then they are now. Imagine how you would feel, and how you would still be OK and survive this. Also imagine if you had revision and it turned out worse. And how you could still be OK and survive. This exercise will help you to be appreciative what you have now, and might not want to have surgery, or if you do can show you that you will still be OK if things don't work out. Be gentle with yourself, and know you're not alone in having these thoughts and its OK to have, but important to manage them or have a plan to address their concern. Dove Real Beauty: The one on left is women describing themselves, the image on the right is a stranger describing them to the sketch artist.

Welcome neen

@JLBCGP Very cool!